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View Poll Results: Did Lee Harvey Oswalt Act Alone?

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  • Yes, he acted alone.

    10 45.45%
  • There were other conspirators, but he pulled the trigger

    8 36.36%
  • There were other conspirators, and he did not pull the trigger

    1 4.55%
  • He was framed and innocent of any crimes

    1 4.55%
  • No opinion

    2 9.09%
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  1. #31
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    This is an interesting observation, but it does not universally absolve all events of having conspiracy as an element of their genesis.
    True. I tend to adopt a sort of...Occam's Razor approach to conspiracy theories. There's a reasonable limit to leaps I will make. Lack of transparency and absence of evidence to me just isn't enough for me to make some leaps.



    I agree with your first sentence. Your second sentence bothers me. Why would you allow 3,000 innocent people to be killed for the sake of starting an economically motivated war? Why not just be direct and say: "Fuck you whackjob bastards over there, we're sick of your shit, and we're coming in to kick your ass. Anyone who doesn't surrender by midnight tomorrow will be in the line of fire. Be sure to shop at Wal-Mart and buy a Chevrolet next year, Mmmmkay."

    The assinine illusion of political correctness really bothers me. If our leaders feel the need to exert military force, then they should man up to it and not dance like pansies trying to create false perceptions by killing our civilians.
    While I think you're right in "Why can't the government be more transparent," it's just not part of political culture to ever be that forward. You always need escape hatches, you always need to be able to backtrack if you ever want to be elected again. You want to say you had no choice.

    You let 3,000 people die over being up front because of the perceptual shift in the country's attitude and the ability to rationalize oneself [the individuals of said country] as good. It's harder to accept you're a good country if you're invading countries because you feel like and it, not to mention if the military action goes sour, the other side paints the party as warmongers costing everyone trillions and they don't get elected again for 20 years. Now, if you all of a sudden become the victims of a terrifying, world threatening evil, well... it's a good nation's obligation to combat this evil. Public support for dubious lawmaking is unquestioned, nobody can try to slow things down because if you do you're unpatriotic, a communist dupe, you're a terrorist, blah blah blah. This is an interesting psychological phenomenon too. Nothing unites people like a common threat.

    Will you care when this nation becomes a police state and your right to choose what you care about is taken from you? Because that's where shit like this goes eventually, Jock. Believe it.
    I don't think it's in the interests of the powers that be to ever let this happen. But if it does, I'm pretty sure I'll notice before it happens and then I'll just leave.

    I agree with you here.



    -Halla


    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    I'm a Ni-dom and I don't believe there was a conspiracy, other then there were probably other plots to kill Kennedy. But then again I'm a 4, not a 6.

    It's not causation. But it's a tendency I notice. One of those things. Not every Ni/6 is a conspiracy theorist, but a good number of conspiracy theorists tend to be Ni/6s Remember INTJ123?



  2. #32
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Conspiracy theories are an interesting psychological phenomenon. Most of them tend to be created as a safety response, "I feel safer if there was organized, malicious intent by a powerful body rather than accept a leader can be killed by your average psycho."
    I'm not so sure. I think a perhaps equally common cause is the sense of importance it grants to the believer. Conspiracy theorists tend to put much emphasis on how few people can see what's really going on. Basically, being one the people who sees makes you special and valuable in some way.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    True. I tend to adopt a sort of...Occam's Razor approach to conspiracy theories. There's a reasonable limit to leaps I will make. Lack of transparency and absence of evidence to me just isn't enough for me to make some leaps.
    I find that conspiracy theories of often based on proudly defying Occam's Razor.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm not so sure. I think a perhaps equally common cause is the sense of importance it grants to the believer. Conspiracy theorists tend to put much emphasis on how few people can see what's really going on. Basically, being one the people who sees makes you special and valuable in some way.
    wiki'd -
    Theodore Millon identified five subtypes of narcissist.[2][3] Any individual narcissist may exhibit none or one of the following:
    unprincipled narcissist - including antisocial features. A charlatan - is a fraudulent, exploitative, deceptive and unscrupulous individual.
    amorous narcissist - including histrionic features. The Don Juan of our times - is erotic, exhibitionist.
    compensatory narcissist - including negativistic (passive-aggressive), avoidant features.
    elitist narcissist - variant of pure pattern. Corresponds to Wilhelm Reich's "phallic narcissistic" personality type.
    fanatic type - including paranoid features. A severely narcissistically wounded individual, usually with major paranoid tendencies who holds onto an illusion of omnipotence.


    I find that conspiracy theories of often based on proudly defying Occam's Razor.
    This is true. Most of the more complex conspiracies out there involve woven heaps of assumptions, to the point of almost rewriting history. It's one thing to claim that the JFK assassination was a conspiracy, but another to think that it was related to the MLK assassination, and then to tie it all into a NWO package. One has to leap from dubious evidence to foul play to mal-intent, then to a complete orchestration.

    Men do conspire. They form alliances. But to think that they're organized enough to flesh out these sorts of high-profile assumptions that people make is mind-boggling.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm not so sure. I think a perhaps equally common cause is the sense of importance it grants to the believer. Conspiracy theorists tend to put much emphasis on how few people can see what's really going on. Basically, being one the people who sees makes you special and valuable in some way.
    Agreed. One need only to see conspiracy theorists call their skeptics "sheep" to see that they are engaging in (anti) intellectual vanity and indulging fantasies of being the last, best hope of society. They actually sound a lot like evangelical Christians.

    I find that conspiracy theories of often based on proudly defying Occam's Razor.
    I agree with this completely. I dismiss most conspiracy theories because they have a double handicap. Their theories require greater leaps of logic and imagination and the theorists have much more questionable credibility than their opponents. Two elements that each contribute to the other's weakness.
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  5. #35
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    Holy Fuck!! out come the amateur Psychoanalysts ..

    I'll tell you what.. What I am using is something called "critical thinking". I know bull shit when I see it. I am not a conspiracy freak, I am a student of humanity. History backs me up.. I do not think NASA is sending radio signals through my teeth or that the Bushes are reptiles in human skin.

    I do not think I know what happened.. Only what didn't happen.. I don't give a rats ass if you think I am special, and I don't need to believe in a few theories to make myself feel special.
    I have always been good at spotting bullshit and just because The US Government says something is true or not true doesn't mean I am obligated to believe it.

    I am quite able to think for myself in case you guys haven't noticed by now

  6. #36
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Holy Fuck!! out come the amateur Psychoanalysts ..

    I'll tell you what.. What I am using is something called "critical thinking". I know bull shit when I see it. I am not a conspiracy freak, I am a student of humanity. History backs me up.. I do not think NASA is sending radio signals through my teeth or that the Bushes are reptiles in human skin.

    I do not think I know what happened.. Only what didn't happen.. I don't give a rats ass if you think I am special, and I don't need to believe in a few theories to make myself feel special.
    I have always been good at spotting bullshit and just because The US Government says something is true or not true doesn't mean I am obligated to believe it.

    I am quite able to think for myself in case you guys haven't noticed by now
    Well, if you're a good critical thinker, then I'm sure you'll agree with me that just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they aren't using critical thinking themselves.

    I'm guessing some people went into psychoanalysis because their thoughts are so different on the matter or (to them) your ideas unsupported so much that they can't understand how else you got to where you got. That's usually what happens when people get to that stage.

    I prefer we just deal with the arguments, myself, and drop the armchair sleuthing as you suggest. The ideas will stand or sink on their own, regardless of who believes in them.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #37
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    ...or that the Bushes are reptiles in human skin.
    I don't know man...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, if you're a good critical thinker, then I'm sure you'll agree with me that just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they aren't using critical thinking themselves.

    I'm guessing some people went into psychoanalysis because their thoughts are so different on the matter or (to them) your ideas unsupported so much that they can't understand how else you got to where you got. That's usually what happens when people get to that stage.

    I prefer we just deal with the arguments, myself, and drop the armchair sleuthing as you suggest. The ideas will stand or sink on their own, regardless of who believes in them.
    My ideas are not unsupported.. I mentioned this speech By president Eisenhower
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY"].[/YOUTUBE]

    Many of the speeches By Aldous Huxley, like this one
    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g1k5rK7bWI"].[/YOUTUBE]

    And what have I gotten in return??.. Ridiculed and called a nutter.
    No one has presented me with anything contrary to what I am saying .. They only seek to discredit me, because they believe something different.
    I have stuck to the topic of this thread and presented my case with respect and openly admit I don't know everything and remain open to possibilities.

    So why am I being quoted by you??

    I think that's a pretty fair question

  9. #39
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    So why am I being quoted by you??

    I think that's a pretty fair question
    Wow, Arc.
    If you want me to see you as paranoid without reading the rest of this thread, that was exactly the right question to ask.

    You were the last post in the thread.

    I was responding to you in an impartial fashion -- I really don't know who is at fault here, althought traditionally people have been making these claims for years, along with how Bush was behind 9/11, blah blah blah, and it's still essentially a fringe opinion. But I'd still entertain it, depending on what evidence could be brought to bear.

    I just said, "Let's let the evidence speak for itself, let's knock off the armchair analyses," which was aimed at everyone in this thread; and quoted you because you were the most recent post and the one that showed up on my Friends feed on the main page that actually brought me to this thread.

    That's all.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #40
    Ginkgo
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