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  1. #31
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Part of me wonders how this will affect the schools in which the suicides took place in (and, perhaps, attitudes towards the bullies).

    I attended, for example, Columbine High School starting a few years after the shooting. Myself and most of my peers had lived in the town when it occurred, and knew people, friends, even siblings who were in the building, tramatized, injured or killed in the attack.

    Now, a lot of the blame was placed on bullying as you probably know, and while there was some significant bullying at Columbine, I don't think Harris or Klebold were actually bullied much if at all (I've looked up a number of articles on the incident, in fact my search for better understanding left me with an oddly large knowledge of serial and spree killers but little actual understanding of most of their mindsets). In particular, Dusty Hoffschneider was well known as his elder brother Rocky Hoffschneider (yeah, Dusty and Rocky are their real names, so I guess their father was pretty on-the-nose and insistent they be 'hard') had very extreme reputations as bullies (and star jocks). People in this town did not give that family much slack or sympathy after the shootings.

    And when I finally attended Columbine, that common memory, accurate or inaccurate as the role of bullying in the shooting may have been, seems to have done something. That is to say, there weren't really many bullies. Even when their were, tolerance shot straight down to zero. Compared to what I've read of other schools, it seems like cliques, while extant, co-mingled pretty pleasantly. I'm convinced that as terrible as that massacre was, this one good thing did come out of it.

    Now, these suicides aren't quite so large in scale as that, but I must wonder: how is this going to affect attitudes at those schools, if only for the next few years?
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  2. #32
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    Martial arts don't just provide a means for physical defense. The confidence boost gained from knowing you are no longer helpless if things turn physical is often all that's needed for one to raise his or her voice.
    Quote Originally Posted by 5231311252 View Post
    Even though ass whoppings have worked wonders on people, there was a part where I clearly typed "or even just the will to stand up for oneself".
    I saw that, and it's not news to me- my daughter takes Aikido for that reason. But I do find that people often suggest "fight back!" as a response to bullying when the bullying is not overt or physical to begin with and fighting back would be escalating the situation (men especially- probably because more male bullying is physical).
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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  3. #33
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I know. I think about that story when a mother made a myspace account and tormented a poor girl until her death. Sometimes people just get in your head and you have no idea that you are even being bullied.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Trentham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    There is no way that I could make a child who is sobbing and clearly miserable go ANYWHERE every day. If I were sobbing every day before I went to a job, I would fucking quit that job. Adults have that liberty, but for some reason we think kids need to be more stoic than we are.
    I get what you're saying and I agree in principle, but parents of kids who live in rural areas where there's one school district in a 20 mile radius might not have that option without picking up and moving. Of course when it's your child's mental/emotional/physical health that's at stake, it's probably worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tawanda View Post
    I see this a lot with my brother and the kids I babysit...the problem is, they're the ones who end up getting in trouble when they stand up for themselves...it makes me SICK!

    For example, my brother was being taunted and pushed around on the bus last year in 8th grade by a couple of kids...he told them to stop, but then they started fighting, and out of self defense, my brother defended himself by punching one of the boys who was picking on him. Guess who got in trouble? My brother.
    Another time where this happened was in school, where there were three adult witnesses, in a cafeteria. Same thing. He shoved a kid in the wall that was picking on him, because he doesn't take that bullshit, but guess who got in trouble, even though the teachers supervising the cafeteria saw that he was being bullied? My brother.
    Indeed. This has been going on for at least 30 years. I made the "mistake" of fighting back once in second grade. Got caught throwing a punch and *I* had to end up apologizing to the kid who had been antagonizing me for weeks. Got in much worse trouble once I got home because the teacher called my mom and told her I'd started a fight. After that I never bothered fighting back again. What was the point?

    It's worse mentally on girls, it's a different spectrum of bullying that attacks from the inside.
    I agree with Halla on this. As a male who was bullied virtually every day from 1st to around 5th grade, the psychological/emotional attacks were infinitely more damaging than the physical ones. Bumps and bruises are very easy to forget.
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  5. #35
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trentham View Post
    I get what you're saying and I agree in principle, but parents of kids who live in rural areas where there's one school district in a 20 mile radius might not have that option without picking up and moving. Of course when it's your child's mental/emotional/physical health that's at stake, it's probably worth it.
    Which is true... but it's arriving at the notion that "my child's mental/emotional/physical health is at stake" that takes people a LOOOONG time sometimes to reach. Parents will definitely step in without thinking if it is truly clear their child is in real danger, but this stuff is often far more vague, at least at the beginning.

    Picking up and moving is a huge endeavor and might even involve the parents having to find new jobs... which can really suck, depending on the economy, and cause even further hardship to the family in question. They have to be convinced that their kid really is in unavoidable danger, that there is no other solution aside from getting their kid out of that school, before they are willing to consider such a drastic measure. It's no wonder that parents often wait until things reach the breaking point before they act; it's the same process we use to make any sort of decision like that (such as trying lesser ways to deal with a medical condition before opting for the potentially fatal surgery if nothing else works).

    And, frankly, some parents just don't have the sensitivity to get to that answer before things get bad. Some parents get there quicker, some more slowly.

    I agree with Halla on this. As a male who was bullied virtually every day from 1st to around 5th grade, the pscyhological/emotional attacks were infinitely more damaging than the physical ones. Bumps and bruises are very easy to forget.
    Well, unless they kill you. It's happened.
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  6. #36
    Oberon
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    Homeschooling is hard, but it's threads like this that remind me that it's so worth it.

  7. #37
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Who do you think the administrators were when they were growing up?
    You know, I believe that may be the case. I see a lot of times they either feel like they can't do anything about it and high-tail it out of that district, or they're just bitter because they're stuck there dealing with kids they might see as more intelligent than they are who are being pushed around.

    They also told my brother that college is a 'lofty goal' for him when he graduates. I think every student at that school's 'lofty goal' is college.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trentham View Post
    Got in much worse trouble once I got home because the teacher called my mom and told her I'd started a fight.
    Your mother did not believe your version of the truth?

  9. #39
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    I am going to echo Billy here a bit.
    What has changed?
    Because Kids have been bullying kids since kids were kids.

    Is the press just reporting it more?

    When I went to High School.. it was violent..
    Did perhaps the crackdown on violence lead to more subtle form of bullying.?

    Are the Kids today less able to cope with emotional issues?
    Have we over protected and molly coddled them to the point of them not being able to cope with hardship?

  10. #40
    Senior Member Trentham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Your mother did not believe your version of the truth?
    Nope. My sister and I didn't often receive the benefit of the doubt while growing up, especially not where the word of an authority figure was in question.
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