User Tag List

First 456

Results 51 to 56 of 56

  1. #51
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Actually I heard a story of a man who's brother was shot and taken to 3 different hospitals who refused to see him because he had no insurance. His brother finally bled out and died. I'm guessing the wound initially was not deemed 'life threatening' on the triage scale and therefore not ER worthy? But eventually non stop blood loss leads to death which is eventually what happened. So stuff like this does happen, even in the states.
    That's illegal. I absolutely question the validity of that story. That used to happen to black people in the '20s and '30s at segregated hospitals, but I have never seen ANY evidence of a hospital refusing to admit someone to the ER due to lack of insurance. They get paid in the end no matter what. I work in a hospital for a year and a half.


    As for the fire situation in the OP - I think it's harder for people to wrap their head around this when emergency services/first responders are seen as a common resource. Police/firefighters/EMS, etc. There is something that seems unfair or uncaring about denying these services to people when the resources are available. Maybe that is just an environmental response when you are taught something is a 'basic right' or you assume will always be readily available to you. So it's hard to wrap my head around denying the 'service' even though I understand intellectually that the fee, which is in lieu of a tax, had not been paid. Also, I can't see firefighters in the states not saving a home because the owners have obviously not been paying their taxes or are say, "undocumented workers" aka illegal immigrants.
    It's completely unreasonable for them to do so. Even if it were a completely privatized fire department, they would be expected to act positively in that situation if they were the only viable firefighting entity in the area.


    I remember the fire department had to come out to our house many years ago and kick down our door to respond to a kitchen fire. My mom kept trying to give the firefighters money, for lunch I think, which shocked me. Even as a child I knew something was wrong with a public employee accepting money like that - I remember thinking "Mom, you don't have to do that, that's their job"
    People naturally want to reward those who help them, especially if they were in fear of their lives.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #52
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    No I'm pretty sure that's what happens when public service payments are "optional" and other people have already made excellent posts on the subject, and how costs can also be driven up, etc.
    This wasn't a privatized fire department. This was a government jurisdictional issue. Even if a libertarian would be happier under a user fee system than a straight-up local tax, that doesn't change the particulars of this situation. Common law in the U.S. is pretty much based on two things: 1) what has happened in the past; and 2) "what a reasonable person would assume" given the facts of the case. Does it sound reasonable to you that a fire department would refuse to put out a fire due to a homeowner being in arrears, even when they are being offered the amount due right there and then? That doesn't make any sense, and it has NOTHING to do with libertarians. You are suffering from some major derangement syndrome when it comes to libertarians, and you probably shouldn't try to make an extrapolation like this, since your link is tenuous at best. Think about what you write before you write it.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #53
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That's illegal. I absolutely question the validity of that story. That used to happen to black people in the '20s and '30s at segregated hospitals, but I have never seen ANY evidence of a hospital refusing to admit someone to the ER due to lack of insurance. They get paid in the end no matter what. I work in a hospital for a year and a half.
    Well, that's why I'm guessing the hospital did not deem the man's brother serious enough to enter the ER and he was rejected for having a manageable or non-life threatening issue. If the hospitals had deemed the gunshot wound imminently life threatening, they would have been compelled to accept him into the ER. It sounds horrible, but it may have saved his brother's life had he been shot in a more immediately obvious/severe location so that the first ER would have had to accept him.

    How do hospitals get paid no matter what?

    The US healthcare system works on an emergency basis. There is no prevention or focus on wellness. It's basically ignore-you/ignore-you/ignore-you until you are in crisis mode. So they will basically ignore all your symptoms and general well-being until you have a heart attack and then once you are flatlining your are entitled to emergency care even if you don't have insurance.

    And I've read and heard enough first hand accounts of people being discriminated against at hospitals, to the point they do not receive proper care, that I'm not shocked by the story.

    Kinda a derail~
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  4. #54
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That's illegal. I absolutely question the validity of that story. That used to happen to black people in the '20s and '30s at segregated hospitals, but I have never seen ANY evidence of a hospital refusing to admit someone to the ER due to lack of insurance. They get paid in the end no matter what. I work in a hospital for a year and a half.
    Well, that's why I'm guessing the hospital did not deem the man's brother serious enough to enter the ER and he was rejected for having a manageable or non-life threatening issue. If the hospitals had deemed the gunshot wound imminently life threatening, they would have been compelled to accept him into the ER. It sounds horrible, but it may have saved his brother's life had he been shot in a more immediately obvious/severe location so that the first ER would have had to accept him.

    How do hospitals get paid no matter what?

    The US healthcare system works on an emergency basis. There is no prevention or focus on wellness. It's basically ignore-you/ignore-you/ignore-you until you are in crisis mode. So they will basically ignore all your symptoms and general well-being until you have a heart attack and then once you are flatlining your are entitled to emergency care even if you don't have insurance.

    And I've read and heard enough first hand accounts of people being discriminated against at hospitals, to the point they do not receive proper care, that I'm not shocked by the story.

    Kinda a derail~
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  5. #55
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    ESFJ
    Posts
    6,946

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Well, that's why I'm guessing the hospital did not deem the man's brother serious enough to enter the ER and he was rejected for having a manageable or non-life threatening issue. If the hospitals had deemed the gunshot wound imminently life threatening, they would have been compelled to accept him into the ER. It sounds horrible, but it may have saved his brother's life had he been shot in a more immediately obvious/severe location so that the first ER would have had to accept him.
    I've never heard of a hospital treating a gunshot wound as non-critical. Even a flesh wound needs someone to take a look at it, specifically because of the possibilities of exsanguination or shock. That really sounds far-fetched to me, but anything is possible. As I said, I worked in a hospital for a while (the ophthalmology side of a larger facility with emergency care, a heart institute, etc.), and there are true morons at pretty much every level of those organizations. It was part of a university health system, so there was an extra layer of bureaucratic nonsense involved, too. I shudder to think what it was like at the VA hospital down the street.

    How do hospitals get paid no matter what?
    If a poorer individual (but not poor enough or informed enough to take advantage of Medicaid), gets emergency care, they will be billed. Then they will have a collection agency sent after them, but the HCO doesn't want that (they get little more than 50% of the money at that point, the collection agency gets the rest). And the state generally will not force a garnishing of salary or sheriff's sale for catastrophic health care bills, so the state usually ends up footing the bill. The HCO never gets as much money as they would from a rich individual or insurance company, though. The loss is made up for by everyone with insurance paying more. That is the single most compelling argument for universal coverage, although it still doesn't satisfy me. More people had cheaper coverage in the 1950s, even those without medical benefits through work. There were even free hospitals for the indigent that were pretty good at that time.

    The US healthcare system works on an emergency basis. There is no prevention or focus on wellness. It's basically ignore-you/ignore-you/ignore-you until you are in crisis mode. So they will basically ignore all your symptoms and general well-being until you have a heart attack and then once you are flatlining your are entitled to emergency care even if you don't have insurance.
    That is pretty much true, and it sucks. The seeds were sown for this in the 1930s, though. Once people got onto the "my job = my health insurance" bandwagon, it practically eliminated private health insurance for individuals, and then rise of Medicare/Medicaid/HMOs/huge medical malpractice premiums sealed the deal on paying for health care out of pocket. It was a combination of governmental and corporate shortsightedness and individual lack of information about the market mechanisms. An understandable lack of information, given the complexity of both medicine and health care bureaucracy.

    And I've read and heard enough first hand accounts of people being discriminated against at hospitals, to the point they do not receive proper care, that I'm not shocked by the story.

    Kinda a derail~
    I am sure individuals have been and continue to be discriminated against. I just find the "He doesn't have insurance so we're not treating him" story to be highly suspicious.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #56
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    2,879

    Default

    Wait a minute...how did they know this guy didn't pay for his service? It would be kinda scary to think your address/name is hanging on the board as a 'non-payer'. How do they even work a system like this?

Similar Threads

  1. [ESFP] Lack of spontaneous friends for an ESFP
    By shanix in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-23-2015, 09:29 AM
  2. Evanston School Shuts Down Honors Program Due to Lack of Diversity
    By Oberon in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 12-23-2010, 12:20 AM
  3. [sx] sx/sp types, let me save you a lot of trouble in the search for a mate
    By themarlins in forum Instinctual Subtypes
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-09-2010, 11:08 PM
  4. For lack of a better title
    By Idioteque in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-20-2010, 09:12 PM
  5. For my lack of empathy, today..
    By Fluffywolf in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-04-2009, 09:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO