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  1. #11
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Not all stoners become governers. Some of them collect gold medals.

  2. #12
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    How so?

    If Prop 19 passes, it will become law whether or not this bill was signed by Arnold or not.
    1.) Not enforcing a law that remains on the books has a corrosive effect on the rule of law, leading citizens to percieve law enforcement as arbitrary rather than indiscriminate; the method of decriminalization in question avoids that problem while effectively serving the same purpose as other forms of decriminalization.

    2.) I know, my support for Proposition 19 (provided that the marijuana in question is grown and distributed within California to avoid infringements on Constitutional parameters in light of current federal laws) is separate from my support for this method of decriminalization, which I think is an idea that can be exported to states that are not quite ready to embrace legalization.

  3. #13
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    1.) Not enforcing a law that remains on the books has a corrosive effect on the rule of law, leading citizens to percieve law enforcement as arbitrary rather than indiscriminate; the method of decriminalization in question avoids that problem while effectively serving the same purpose as other forms of decriminalization.
    Unless I'm mistaken, once a proposition passes, it supercedes all other state laws, unless overturned by the courts.

    In any case, the bill Arnold signed would still be in conflict with complete legalization, which Prop 19 entails.

    2.) I know, my support for Proposition 19 (provided that the marijuana in question is grown and distributed within California to avoid infringements on Constitutional parameters in light of current federal laws) is separate from my support for this method of decriminalization, which I think is an idea that can be exported to states that are not quite ready to embrace legalization.
    Marijuana is illegal under federal law, even for medicinal purposes. The Federal government can enforce this through their law enforcement agencies - the Commerce Clause gives them that ability, even if the "contraband" never crosses state lines.

    Luckily, Obama told the DEA to back the fuck up.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  4. #14
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken, once a proposition passes, it supercedes all other state laws, unless overturned by the courts. In any case, the bill Arnold signed would still be in conflict with complete legalization, which Prop 19 entails.

    Marijuana is illegal under federal law, even for medicinal purposes. The Federal government can enforce this through their law enforcement agencies - the Commerce Clause gives them that ability, even if the "contraband" never crosses state lines.
    1.) I never indicated otherwise, I'm not sure what the confusion is...I support this specific method of decriminalization in contrast to methods which simply don't enforce whatever laws exist at the time. Legalization is better, but this is a productive intermediate step.

    2.) According to an excessively broad interpretation of the Commerce Clause that effectively nullifies the Tenth Amendment without formally doing so, yes-I don't acknowledge the validity of that interpretation, and so I would support a state legalization bill that is in synch with my Constitutional principles. Constitutional law (such as that pertaining to the Tenth Amendment and the Commerce Clause) and statutory law (such as federal drug laws) are two different animals; the former is supposed to be contested, the latter cannot be (outside of the legislative process) without undermining the rule of law itself.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 10-01-2010 at 04:33 PM. Reason: clarification

  5. #15
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    Moot.

    Obama administration told the DEA not to bother state legal operations.
    INTP 4w5 SX/SP
    Tritype 4/5/8

  6. #16
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    KER-CHING!!

    The later day Capones are making with the brown envelopes for politicians again.

  7. #17
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    But why isn't this a good thing? I don't understand.

  8. #18
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    KER-CHING!!

    The later day Capones .........
    ooooohhh....later day Capones vs. Latter Day Saints posse, California.

    Sounds like an interesting match.

  9. #19
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    But why isn't this a good thing? I don't understand.
    The opponents will try to sway people on the fence away from voting for Prop 19. They'll say: "Its already practically legal, why risk taking that extra step? All hell might break loose - Federal gov't will cut our funds, the state will be a drug tourism destination that attracts unwelcomed guests, employers may be banned from firing people who get stoned all the time blah blah blah."

    Same shit they've been saying before, only now they might win over some fence riding "skeered kats"
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  10. #20
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    I'm gonna find edgar's yard/driveway edge to the sidewalk there and fucking chimney-torch some massive amounts of herbs once this shit is official. From Upwind. who's with me?

    we've got to make our smoking so obnoxious, even Edgargrad will yield.

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