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  1. #61
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Why is that? How exactly can arguments about ethics and culture be determined by scientific experiments?
    When I mention experiments, I'm talking about arguments for the existence of an entity like God, not arguments for ethics and culture. You can't devise one that would satisfy religious people because they say that God has to be experienced or that we don't have the capacity to understand him or some other evasive rhetoric.

  2. #62
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    When I mention experiments, I'm talking about arguments for the existence of an entity like God, not arguments for ethics and culture.
    But you mentioned "holes" in the logic of religious arguments concerning ethics and culture. Hence my question.

    You can't devise one that would satisfy religious people because they say that God has to be experienced or that we don't have the capacity to understand him or some other evasive rhetoric.
    That's only true if they adhere to Fideism. The concept that God's existence can be known through man's rational capabilities is the whole premise behind Natural Theology, which is distinguished from Revealed Theology - which is based on revealation and "faith".

  3. #63
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    But you mentioned "holes" in the logic of religious arguments concerning ethics and culture. Hence my question.
    First lemme restate my point so as to avoid confusion. My point was that there are some cases where people accept conclusions based on authority rather than personal verification. One factor people consider when accepting facts based on authority is whether the evidence/experiments/observations can be personally verified. Another factor is whether the authority figure can be trusted and found reliable. We use those shortcuts so we don't have to go and prove everything we hear, which would be too time consuming.

    Reliability can be assessed by how well the authority figure collects data and draws conclusions from that data, i.e., how sound their logic is and how how accurate their premises are. We can examine the logic in the specific argument used to justify the existence of God (if there is one), but more commonly, we examine other arguments and beliefs to gauge credibility. It doesn't prove or disprove the primary argument about God's existence, but it creates a presumption of credibility (or a lack thereof).

    Many people find the training and precision of a scientist to be more trustworthy than the training and precision of a clergyman, so they're more inclined to accept the existence of electrons over the existence of God. A scientist trains with the scientific method which is designed to collect accurate and reliable knowledge and avoid assumptions at all costs. A clergyman doesn't have that same training, so we're less apt to believe his conclusions.

    My comment about finding flaws in the peripheral arguments of religious people is based on people I'm met, my religious school teachers, and people I've seen in the media. It doesn't mean that religious people can't be trusted. That wasn't my point. I was trying to explain why it's safer to believe in the existence of electrons based on authority than to believe in the existence of God based on authority.

    That's only true if they adhere to Fideism. The concept that God's existence can be known through man's rational capabilities is the whole premise behind Natural Theology, which is distinguished from Revealed Theology - which is based on revealation and "faith".
    I'm sure there are people who say God can be proven. So has it been proven yet?

  4. #64
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    When I mention experiments, I'm talking about arguments for the existence of an entity like God, not arguments for ethics and culture. You can't devise one that would satisfy religious people because they say that God has to be experienced or that we don't have the capacity to understand him or some other evasive rhetoric.
    Don't we usually get evasive rhetoric when we talk to people about aliens, too?

    Anyway, Stephen Hawking is probably one of them, it's the only explanation as to why he's not dead yet.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #65
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Don't we usually get evasive rhetoric when we talk to people about aliens, too?

    Anyway, Stephen Hawking is probably one of them, it's the only explanation as to why he's not dead yet.
    Usually, yeah, which is why people don't usually believe in aliens.

  6. #66
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    And anyway, once a UFO is identified it's not a UFO anymore.

    Considering they seem to be targeting US and UK military bases, how do we know it's not just the Russians fucking with us again?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    EHHHHH

    How deeply have you investigated UFOs? There's some pretty compelling evidence that Jung's archetype theory doesn't account for.


    I've researched it enough to know you've not read his book on flying saucers, its pretty comprehensive and not as simple as archetype theorising, there's a lot about culture, myth formation, projection and identification.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I'm sure there are people who say God can be proven. So has it been proven yet?
    Says the UFOer.

    Watch the skies dude watch the skies

  9. #69
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Many people find the training and precision of a scientist to be more trustworthy than the training and precision of a clergyman, so they're more inclined to accept the existence of electrons over the existence of God. A scientist trains with the scientific method which is designed to collect accurate and reliable knowledge and avoid assumptions at all costs. A clergyman doesn't have that same training, so we're less apt to believe his conclusions.
    Theology is actually called "queen of the sciences".

  10. #70
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Theology is actually called "queen of the sciences".
    And my dick is called "whistle of the gods".

    But let's keep it on topic here, shall we?
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

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