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  1. #21
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INA View Post
    William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
    Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
    William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
    Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
    ~ A Man for All Seasons

    There's something to that. Though that depends on the general legitimacy of the legal system in the first place (see, e.g. Jim Crow, Third Reich, etc.). Still, even with bad laws you're often better off trying to destroy them from within.
    I'm unsure what you mean about destroy them from within. Or if it relates to that quote.

    I love that movie, I tend to think that quote is a little like the idea that "there is so much bad in the best of us, and so much good in the worst of us, that it hardly behooves any of us to talk about the rest of us", in the context of religious toleration it could mean that the law which vexed one party because author used it as refuge one day could be the same law which that very party uses for refuge the next.

    Law can be superior to a primitive state of anarchy, properly called chaos, which preceeds it or typifies lawlessness, disorder or breakdown but it isnt really a substitute for justice.

    Part of the reason, and its long forgotten, for the popularity of duelling or trials by combat to settle legal grievances or insults to honour back in the day was not simply believing that God would fate a particularly just out come but that if satisfaction where not forth coming that the injured party would not be suffered to live with the injustice. That sounds terrible to a modern mindset and I'll grant its pretty tragic but I can see how if the injury was grevious enough that living with it would be a greater challenge than dying seeking to avenge it.

  2. #22
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm unsure what you mean about destroy them from within. Or if it relates to that quote.

    I love that movie, I tend to think that quote is a little like the idea that "there is so much bad in the best of us, and so much good in the worst of us, that it hardly behooves any of us to talk about the rest of us", in the context of religious toleration it could mean that the law which vexed one party because author used it as refuge one day could be the same law which that very party uses for refuge the next.
    Great film, I agree.

    By destroy it from within, I mean use legal means to change unjust laws rather than transgressing them and destroying yourself instead.

    It relates to the quote because the quote points out that myopically weakening the law to allow for your own brand of natural justice (instead of using the law to challenge the law) weakens your own legal protections and leaves you vulnerable to greater victimization, with truly no recourse. Then again, I don't see that you're suggesting that this girl should not be held fully accountable for her actions at law . . . so perhaps you want both the thicket of laws and what you call natural justice.

    Law can be superior to a primitive state of anarchy, properly called chaos, which preceeds it or typifies lawlessness, disorder or breakdown but it isnt really a substitute for justice.
    There's a reason I call it the legal rather than the justice system. Travesties abound

    That sounds terrible to a modern mindset and I'll grant its pretty tragic but I can see how if the injury was grevious enough that living with it would be a greater challenge than dying seeking to avenge it.
    Yup, the concept of honor is so 2 centuries ago. Its decline in the west roughly paralleled the proliferation of all manner of laws that don't quite scratch the itch, but that we apparently prefer to the sort of rough justice that shortens life spans.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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