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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Brain View Post
    There are far too many important details missing in this story for me to accurately form a conclusion on who was right and who was wrong. If the accussed rapist had committed his crime, then I would side with the vigilante in this case. But considering that the accussed rapist could have very well been innocent, and other significant factors are unknown to me, then I can't really say who's right and who's wrong.
    Yeah, I think its a bit like what Halla said too though, picking between the possible sex offender and possible feral children isnt easy.

  2. #12
    Member Will2911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, I think its a bit like what Halla said too though, picking between the possible sex offender and possible feral children isnt easy.
    Okay, but why, if there are too few details in the news article, did you post the topic to begin with?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will2911 View Post
    Okay, but why, if there are too few details in the news article, did you post the topic to begin with?
    It interested me and I thought it could be a source of conversation with some of the people here who I regularly converse with, why did you take so much exception to it?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Horrid article, Lark.
    Try to find something uplifting next time, would ya'?
    Post something uplifting? Lark? Surely you jest.

  5. #15
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Not sure how I feel about a plausible resolution.

    It's horrid for a man to allegedly molest a girl.
    It's horrid for two teens to actually stab a man to death.

    And endorsing either or both of these acts contributes to a safe and stable environment for other people and children, how, exactly?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    And endorsing either or both of these acts contributes to a safe and stable environment for other people and children, how, exactly?
    Molestors are opportunistic, their conscience isnt enough to stop them behaving in an abusive manner, what, in theory, does deter them is fear of being found out or fear of violence.

    Pretty sure if there's increased risk of either then there will be a consequent decrease in molestation, it stands to reason anyway.

  7. #17
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Molestors are opportunistic, their conscience isnt enough to stop them behaving in an abusive manner, what, in theory, does deter them is fear of being found out or fear of violence.

    Pretty sure if there's increased risk of either then there will be a consequent decrease in molestation, it stands to reason anyway.
    Which I get.
    It's a self-regulating aspect of the system: Allow people to retaliate with violence, especially beyond the scope of the original crime, will certainly help prevent one type of crime (well, if it doesn't escalate conflict).

    So what about:
    1. The increase in violence against those who might or might not be innocent of the charges -- or not guilty of the extent of the accusations against them? (Remember the Manendez brothers here in the States, who murdered their parents because of alleged abuse, but were lying?)
    2. The imbalance of 'crime' matching 'punishment'?
    3. The fact you now have private citizens executing other private citizens with government endorsement, without validation of the crime?

    That last bit rather freaks me out. What happens if the neighbor girl would accuse you of molesting her even when you didn't; and some thugs show up and torture and kill you that evening; and they write it off if they can't verify you didn't molest her? I would think that would worry you. Put yourself in the shoes of people who might be wronged by the flaws in that system, just as you are putting yourself currently in the shoes of the girl who potentially was wronged in the current system.

    Maybe you'd rather live with this set of issues than the other set, but you still need to deal with them.
    They're going to bite the culture in the ass if they are allowed.


    As far as this guy goes, it was kind of a dumb move all around to call the girl immediately and say he was off the hook. I can't imagine a good reason for an innocent or a guilty man to do that.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #18
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
    Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
    William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
    Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
    ~ A Man for All Seasons

    There's something to that. Though that depends on the general legitimacy of the legal system in the first place (see, e.g. Jim Crow, Third Reich, etc.). Still, even with bad laws you're often better off trying to destroy them from within.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
    — Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  9. #19

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    Maybe you'd rather live with this set of issues than the other set, but you still need to deal with them.
    They're going to bite the culture in the ass if they are allowed.
    Its not like I've not thought about that you know, it is a problem for some people perhaps, although I'm in my 31st year and have managed to avoid it and God willing I will continue to avoid it, in any instance I know not to behave stupidly like this individual did, as you say yourself:

    As far as this guy goes, it was kind of a dumb move all around to call the girl immediately and say he was off the hook. I can't imagine a good reason for an innocent or a guilty man to do that.
    Yeah, what about that? Certainly makes the whole situation appear suspect to me, perhaps this was a consequence of being stupid rather than criminal, in either case its a situation which makes me think of this demotivator poster:-



    My own concept of natural justice of which this is loosely connected, is that behaviour should have consequences and if it is wrongful, wicked, bad or down right evil then its just great if it has consequences, the more immediate the better, its not common in the real world so its why novels, movies and cartoons are popular.

  10. #20
    Ginkgo
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    "CENTRAL MARICOPA COUNTY IN SOUTH CENTRAL ARIZONA...
    THIS INCLUDES THE CITIES OF...TOLLESON...SCOTTSDALE...PHOENIX...
    PARADISE VALLEY...LAVEEN...
    * UNTIL 130 PM MST * AT 1220 PM MST...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEOROLOGISTS DETECTED A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM CAPABLE OF PRODUCING GOLF BALL SIZE HAIL...AND DAMAGING WINDS IN EXCESS OF 60 MPH. THIS STORM WAS LOCATED NEAR LAVEEN...AND MOVING NORTH AT 65 MPH."

    Arizona did something nastay...

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