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  1. #1
    Member Will2911's Avatar
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    Default 'Red' Ed Miliband

    As a sometimes supporter of Labour, although I'm probably on the Right of the party, agreeing more with Blair, I am intrested to see what people think of the parties new leader Ed Miliband.

    Personally I would of prefered David Miliband as leader, he is more in line withbmynwing of Labour, plus I think he is the better known and more experienced of the two brothers. David for me is a natural leader, he has a lot more charisma and is more likeable then Ed.

    Although having heard Ed's speech today I am coming around to his leadership, he is perhaps still slightly left of where I would like him to be, but I notice he is moving more into the centre ground.

    I was impressed with his speech, whilst not a stunning debut, like Blairs in '94, it was solid, and I think he could do well as a leader.

    I only hope David stays on and serves in the shadow cabinet.

    Any views?

  2. #2
    Member Will2911's Avatar
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    Oh I forgot most people here were from the other side of the Pond, and know nothing about things which happen outside there own Borders.

    Shouldn't complain, is very rude of me. I just don't like that we in Britain have American stuff forced on us constantly, and on the other side of the Atlantic, they know nothing of our politics... On the whole, I am sure there are some who do.

  3. #3
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    Ok, it isn't worth a lot, but here's my view

    I think David had stronger ideas of his own than Ed, and wouldn't have given the unions as much power...we don't want be like France (no offence, but they halt the country with constant strike action, everyone deserves the right to strike but come on.) I think Ed's about as far right as you'll get where leading Labour these days though, because it's not all down to the votes of the MPs, and I doubt the other voting groups really want to be told what to do too much.

  4. #4
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    I'm not a fan, which should surprise exactly no one; I don't like any party that's a member of the Socialist International (its the principle of the thing, and I think first principles have real consequences beyond short-term policy positions), but Blair was effectively moving his party toward what is called "social-liberalism" in Europe (which at least rhetorically values individual rights over redistribution for its own sake, and utilitarian outcomes over class warfare), so I'm saddened by the leftward shift. I'm not surprised, however, as the Liberal Democrats have had to move back to the center, leaving a void that a large percentage of British voters wanted filled.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 09-28-2010 at 12:08 PM. Reason: clarification

  5. #5
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will2911 View Post
    Shouldn't complain, is very rude of me. I just don't like that we in Britain have American stuff forced on us constantly, and on the other side of the Atlantic, they know nothing of our politics... On the whole, I am sure there are some who do.
    We do not force them onto you. You force them onto yourself. Blame your own goddamn networks.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I think the whole lot of them are on the hard right wing, Blair I think was friendly fascism, abroad and if he could have gotten away with it at home too.

  7. #7
    Member Will2911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    We do not force them onto you. You force them onto yourself. Blame your own goddamn networks.
    I am happy to show an intrest in American politics, I mean it's fascinating, in very few other places in the world would you be unpopular purely because you were 'liberal'

  8. #8
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I'm not a fan, which should surprise exactly no one; I don't like any party that's a member of the Socialist International (its the principle of the thing, and I think first principles have real consequences beyond short-term policy positions), but Blair was effectively moving his party toward what is called "social-liberalism" in Europe (which at least rhetorically values individual rights over redistribution for its own sake, and utilitarian outcomes over class warfare), so I'm saddened by the leftward shift. I'm not surprised, however, as the Liberal Democrats have had to move back to the center, leaving a void that a large percentage of British voters wanted filled.
    You've got to be joking me, Blair was doing one thing and one thing alone to the Labour party and that was moving it toward neo-liberalism with a neo-conservative foreign policy.

    He even provided chapters in a book on the topic of neo-conservativism trying to define what it was and he wasnt attacking it, that should be a clue. Likewise his biography is full of how he felt that labour was far too moderate and should in fact have nixed much of the welfare state and national health service and state pensions.

    That's not even all the reforms which labour was historically responsible for, that the combined welfarist measures of the English Liberal Party, Labour Party and Conservative Party.

    You want Thatcher in drag then you go to Blair. It all began with his total revision of Labour Party constitutional commitments to state ownership, not even that really, to common ownership, which effectively puts them to the right of the present liberals and conservatives coalition which rehetorically at least affirms mutuals, co-management and worker managed firms.

    Blair was also instrumental in trying to push the socialist international in the same direction and the European Party of Socialists, who are the "socialist" voting block in the EU parliament both of which felt that his military flexing in the developing world was suspiscious.

    I dont expect you to acknowledge any of this because of your own self-proclaimed blinkers but I thought I'd say so anyway, I like your posts and despite the fundamental differences on the economic score there's some things I'd think we would have in common.

  9. #9
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont expect you to acknowledge any of this because of your own self-proclaimed blinkers
    Bias is not the same thing as 'blinkers'.

  10. #10
    Member Manis's Avatar
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    Totally right about Bliar, Lark. New Labour was a thatcherite party. Give people some targets to work towards, give them a good war, they'll act like predictable little cogs. Bolster the banks, ignore tax evaders, make everyone rich (everyone who counts), increase benefits to subsidise subsistance wages handed out by failing industries, when the figures start looking bad just shift the goalposts and borrow a little more. When that doesn't work lie through your teeth.

    The scary thing about Labour isn't their obligations to the unions (workers' rights are what they exist for, clue's in the name), it's that they managed to turn completely @rse about face and ditch their principles without anyone piping up or trying to stop them. Ed Miliband isn't nearly as red as the right-wing media (inc. the BBC) are making him out to be but I think he'll take Labour back to where it's supposed to be. We need a decent left-wing party in opposition right now, because the Tories are not going to stop with the deficit. They're pretty much the same as New Labour except they don't care a hoot if the plebs can't make a living.

    He is definitely the right brother for the job too. David's reaction to losing just proves that he was only interested in power, not in what's good for the Labour party or the country. Good riddance.

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