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  1. #31
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Under Portugal's new regime, people found guilty of possessing small amounts of drugs are sent to a panel consisting of a psychologist, social worker and legal adviser for appropriate treatment (which may be refused without criminal punishment), instead of jail.
    This is the part I don't agree with. They should just be let go and if they want help, they can seek it for themselves.

  2. #32
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    This is the part I don't agree with. They should just be let go and if they want help, they can seek it for themselves.
    Understandable, but let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #33
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    As cogent as ever...
    It's true. Were you unfamiliar with Glenn Greenwald's work before this paper? He's not exactly a conservatarian Cato insider type.


    And you counter with something equally pointless and even more grandiose, the process of evolution itself!
    Social evolution. Lark's mentality is so outdated as to be laughable.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #34
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Understandable, but let's not make the perfect the enemy of the good.
    If they're going to decriminalise to reduce costs, why load up on another layer of bureaucracy? As with anything else, unless an addict wants to quit, nothing will help. And anyways, not all people who have possession of small amounts of drugs are addicts so why the need for this extraneous panel?

    Btw, I don't do or believe in drug usage. As a taxpayer, just not interested in interfering in people's lives at personal cost.

  5. #35
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    It's true.
    An incorrect statement driven by invalid reasoning. Why would you even push this? If you just say you were snarking me and I shouldn't consider it too seriously, I'd let it go.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Were you unfamiliar with Glenn Greenwald's work before this paper? He's not exactly a conservatarian Cato insider type.
    Yes, I was unfamiliar and still am. I was only familiar with the institute. Fortunately, I did not assume this article was wrong because of its source, I only became more skeptical of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    If they're going to decriminalise to reduce costs, why load up on another layer of bureaucracy? As with anything else, unless an addict wants to quit, nothing will help. And anyways, not all people who have possession of small amounts of drugs are addicts so why the need for this extraneous panel?
    This is because the main goal is not necessarily to reduce costs, it is to confront the problem of drug use. Reducing costs is one of the nice benefits. Even though the treatment costs more money than doing nothing at all, it costs less than putting people in prison, and I'm sure plenty of people pass on the treatment anyway, so money is still saved.

    I'd like to see some basis for your assertion about drug uses. The psychological community doesn't agree with you much on that one, and I myself find it dubious to treat humans as if they are so unimpressionable.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #36
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Yeah, yeah.

    Maybe we should legalise all poisoners behaviour, let them get their kicks, legalise people trafficking too while we're at it, anything, anyway a buck can be made right?
    Poisoners? Did you mean prisoners?

    Slave trading isn't even close to the same kind of issue as drug prohibition. That you try to equate the two leads me to believe you have very little understanding of the issues. Slave trading involves a direct infringement on the rights of another individual. That's also why murder and rape are illegal. Drug use does not infringe on the rights of others any more than me eating a 20 double cheeseburgers infringes on the rights of others (even though both may be poor decisions).

    Well. That sums up your philosophy for me. Revolution's going to make you into cat food.
    Based on this response, I don't think you even bothered to try to understand my position. You are so ideologically entrenched that your only response is hyperbole.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #37
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    This is because the main goal is not necessarily to reduce costs, it is to confront the problem of drug use. Reducing costs is one of the nice benefits. Even though the treatment costs more money than doing nothing at all, it costs less than putting people in prison, and I'm sure plenty of people pass on the treatment anyway, so money is still saved.

    I'd like to see some basis for your assertion about drug uses. The psychological community doesn't agree with you much on that one, and I myself find it dubious to treat humans as if they are so unimpressionable.
    Why the need for a panel? Why not just offer help to anyone caught with drugs below a particular threshold? Build it into the discussion between the policeman and the offender, the passing out of a pamphlet when caught and let go.

    As far as my assertations about drug usage, there are plenty of individuals who socially use cocaine and marijuana. While cocaine has a high addiction rate, not all users get addicted, particularly when it's very sporadic usage like the odd party here and there.

  8. #38
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    An incorrect statement driven by invalid reasoning. Why would you even push this? If you just say you were snarking me and I shouldn't consider it too seriously, I'd let it go.
    Because you and ajblaise (more ajblaise, to be fair) can be pretty damn kneejerk in such matters.


    Yes, I was unfamiliar and still am. I was only familiar with the institute. Fortunately, I did not assume this article was wrong because of its source, I only became more skeptical of it.
    Which is because of your bias, not theirs.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #39
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Poisoners? Did you mean prisoners?
    Nope. Poisoners.

    Slave trading isn't even close to the same kind of issue as drug prohibition.
    You're wrong again.

    That you try to equate the two leads me to believe you have very little understanding of the issues. Slave trading involves a direct infringement on the rights of another individual. That's also why murder and rape are illegal. Drug use does not infringe on the rights of others any more than me eating a 20 double cheeseburgers infringes on the rights of others (even though both may be poor decisions).
    Oh alright, you wait until you've got someone turned into a Narco-Zombi before you screw with their rights. OK. See how its done now.

    Based on this response, I don't think you even bothered to try to understand my position. You are so ideologically entrenched that your only response is hyperbole.
    Oh no, I understand you're position fine, its some place between dangerously naive and complicit, in any case I reckon you're compromised as a thinker because of ideological blinkers. You'll no doubt turn that around and sugges tits me that's got the blinkers.

    Well, that's alright, when it comes to the extremist wing of capitalism I tend to believe all the talks done, just waiting for the shooting war to begin.

    BTW I'm suggesting we make libertarians into cat food because I like Dogs.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Why the need for a panel? Why not just offer help to anyone caught with drugs below a particular threshold? Build it into the discussion between the policeman and the offender, the passing out of a pamphlet when caught and let go.

    As far as my assertations about drug usage, there are plenty of individuals who socially use cocaine and marijuana. While cocaine has a high addiction rate, not all users get addicted, particularly when it's very sporadic usage like the odd party here and there.

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