User Tag List

First 67891018 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 223

  1. #71
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Having meaning.
    Please define 'meaning'.

  2. #72
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Please define 'meaning'.
    I could propose a definition, but then you could just ask for a definition of a word in my proposed definition.

    And you could do so ad nauseam.

    This exercise tells you much more about the nature of language than the nature of the universe (ex language's role in it).

    There are plenty of 20th century works about this very topic.

    But what's your point? And how does it prove nihilism to be the correct perspective or show that life is meaningless?

  3. #73
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    I would define meaning, as such:

    Meaning in regards to the human condition is that "thing", "concept", "idea" which serves as a purpose, either intrinsically or extrinsically derived to live ones life.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #74
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I could propose a definition, but then you could just ask for a definition of a word in my proposed definition.

    And you could do so ad nauseam.

    This exercise tells you much more about the nature of language than the nature of the universe (ex language's role in it).

    There are plenty of 20th century works about this very topic.

    But what's your point? And how does it prove nihilism to be the correct perspective or show that life is meaningless?
    I want to address your original point, but for that I need a definition of 'meaning' we can agree on. I thought I ask for yours in order to avoid you telling me that mine and therefore my argument were wrong after I have already formulated it.

  5. #75
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Meaning, and meaningful-ness is therefore inherently subjective.

    For one, meaning might come from love, for another, meaning might come from work, for another meaning might come from family, etc.

    I can find someone else's life meaningless according to my own standards or values of what I find meaningful, as they can also view my life as meaningless according to their standards/values.

    But, if I find my own life meaningless, i.e. purposeless, then I would be in a bad place, a very bad place indeed.

    One can go through the motions of life without purpose for so long before their "spirits" whither away.

    For some, they will carry on living their miserable lives for what I view to be a multitude of reasons, some being...

    Fear of death that is greater than their comfort of living a miserable life.

    Fear of actually committing the act of offing themselves.

    Hope, however faint, that at some point, their lives will become that which they want it to be.

    "When you kill yourself, you kill the whole world"

    /end rant.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #76
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I want to address your original point, but for that I need a definition of 'meaning' we can agree on. I thought I ask for yours in order to avoid you telling me that mine and therefore my argument were wrong after I have already formulated it.
    My first instinct was to let you propose your own definition.

    That approach still works for me, if you'd like to have a go at it.

  7. #77
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    MDP posed an interesting question to Nicodemus, whether or not he believes life to be arduous misery.

    To which he answered, yes.

    I've never heard such a question, especially in this context which I find, at the very least, interesting.

    If living one's life is living in arduous misery, this would imply that one lives life in a constant struggle or battle with misery, but the simple fact that there is a struggle, that there is a battle means that there is a will to live.

    If one's life is simply miserable and they no longer have the energy to "fight" to live, to struggle against the constant stream of misery then they would inevitably become consumed by it, (the misery), and then they'd no longer want to live, though, not wanting to live is not equivalent to *wanting to die*, one can go for years without wanting to live but it takes some motivational catalyst for one to actually kill oneself.

    This explains why many severely depressed people will finally commit the act when they are, ironically, on anti-depressants.

    One must feel motivated to kill oneself.

    And, most people who want to kill themselves are, at least clinically speaking, considered severely depressed, either circumstantially or systemically, the first being a depression primarily caused by extrinsic factors and the other being caused primarily by intrinsic factors.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #78
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Posts
    6,707

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    When people commit suicide, they are not merely beings who have gone against their programming.
    Why not go against programming just to go against programming if something out there needs to be told "fuck you"?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #79
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    5,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    If you had said that it cannot be taken seriously, it would have been quite absurd to say: "You seem to think that ..."

    I think our differing opinions have to do with differing understandings of what nihilism actually is. I disagree with you on two major (and some unnamed minor) points: first, that nihilism does not seek to answer any questions about our existence, and second, that it has no other end than self-destruction. I will not bother to contradict the rest of your post, for that would lead into an endless debate.

    If you feel your points deserve a more comprehensive treatment, let me know: then I will, for your pleasure, take part in this discussion.
    Honestly, I don't feel you have expressed your opinions on how you disagree with me. You say you disagree but you don't say on what grounds you disagree. That's what I've been trying to gain from this. I don't seek to change your opinions but to understand them and so far I do not have a clear sense of where you stand.

    So yes. Please expand. For my pleasure of course. If you are a nihilist then how can you have it any other way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    1) Define "work" in nihilistic terms.
    2) Your argument makes no sense.
    .
    1) No.

    2) Brilliant counterpoint.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

  10. #80
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    ...though, not wanting to live is not equivalent to *wanting to die*...
    Now, I agreed with your construction from a week or two ago that not wanting to live (or was it wanting to die? ) is not the same as wanting to kill yourself -- the difference there is clear and obvious -- but I was wondering if you could elaborate on the difference between not wanting to live not being the same as wanting to die.

    I must say, "live" and "die" seem to be a pair of words that are indeed opposites.

    To be alive is to not be dead, and to be dead is to not be alive.

    How then can your above construction make sense?

    *hoping this doesn't derail the thread, although it does seem to be germane...*

Similar Threads

  1. THe Power of Love -- Kiss Saves 16 yr old Suicidal Kid
    By Santosha in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-24-2011, 09:16 AM
  2. Thoughts on the ending of Death Note (Spoilers be warned)
    By Savage Idealist in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 03-22-2011, 08:10 AM
  3. [MBTItm] The merit of stuffed animals
    By nightning in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 09-29-2007, 10:49 AM
  4. A Note on the Problem of Induction
    By reason in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-19-2007, 08:47 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO