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  1. #51
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    LOL.

    Right? What right? Divine right? What on earth are you talking about? "Sovereign" right? Who gives a shit. Are you claiming that the whole world order will collapse if you don't respect Iran's right to acquire nuclear weapons? Haha. Fuck them and their "rights".

    There are ground rules in politics and convention's. They may not be officially enforced, but they are agreed upon term's by an international consensus. This is why the UN exists. This is why diplomacy and global politics exist. Without this, we might as well go back to the roman era. No actually even the roman era had something similar.



    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Israel doesn't chant "death to America" in their parliament. Israel is a very nice place to visit, where you can do pretty much anything that's allowed in any other civilized country without the fear of "vice police" lashings. I've got no problem with Israel.
    Thats irrelevant. It doesn't represent reality. Politics are much more complex then simple statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Oh great idea, genius. Let the belligerent nation run by religious fanatics (who believe they will get 72 virgins in paradise upon martyrdom) have the nukes. ITS OK, THEY WON'T USE THEM.
    , did you watch red dawn when you decided to comment on this issue, per chance?.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    No YOU'RE the one who is blinded by bullshit rhetoric of "fairness amongst nations". Who came up with that concept anyway? Who spent billions of dollars repairing conquered belligenerent nations through the Marshall Plan and who is footing the majority of UN bills? Here's a clue - it isn't anyone from the middle east..



    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    See, I don't pretend about "fair". I clearly told you that I favor western ideaology over that of fundamentalist Islam. And the sooner that vile theocracy is destroyed, the better.
    Fine, then don't claim moral high ground when terrorists blow up your house.

    I really have no words for this edgar. I am thinking your pulling my leg.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  2. #52
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post

    There are ground rules in politics and convention's. They may not be officially enforced, but they are agreed upon term's by an international consensus. This is why the UN exists. This is why diplomacy and global politics exist. Without this, we might as well go back to the roman era. No actually even the roman era had something similar.
    International consensus doesn't want Iran to have nuclear weapons. There are like three nations who are saying "give Iran a chance, maybe its for peaceful purposes after all.": its Venezuela, Brasil, and North Korea. And most likely the only reason Brasil is part of that wack pack is because they have lots crap to sell to Iran and they figured they are far enough from middle east and north america that none of the radioactive fall out lands on them.

    Roman era? Let me tell you about Roman era. At one point, Carthage was as big of an empire as Rome. Most people never even heard of Carthage. You know why? Because when Roman finally defeated Carthage, they massacred good portion of its people, enslaved the rest, burned cities to the ground, salted the earth, and wiped out all historcial records, aside from the ones they wrote themselves which stated something along the lines off: Carthagians practiced child sacrifice and Hannibal was a monster.

    America hands out food, rebuilds infrastructure, and takes on refugees from the countries it defeats. As far as super powers go, America is the sweetest, kindest, warmest one the world has ever seen. You wouldn't be talking shit in public if Ghengis Khan conquered your nation.

    Thats irrelevant. It doesn't represent reality. Politics are much more complex then simple statements.
    Oh? So Iran really likes America and Israel is the one who wants God to smite us into the sea?

    Well OK, if you say so.

    , did you watch red dawn when you decided to comment on this issue, per chance?.
    Did you watch some Arab Legaue spiel before YOUR comments? "Iran doesn't mean any of that death to America stuff. Its those two faced Jews you Americans should be afraid of."

    Common man, really? You're resorting to " YOU DON'T KNOW!!!" and "FACEPALM" as comebacks to my statements, and frankly its not very convincing.

    Fine, then don't claim moral high ground when terrorists blow up your house.
    Here is my claim to moral high ground: America treats its people better than Iran treats its people... by a wide margin.

    And no, I'm not pulling your leg dude.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  3. #53
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    Agreed with Edgar--those who pay the bills should be the ones with the votes.

    As for Iran and nukes--what right? Know why nations come to blows? Because one doesn't give a damn about the other's rights, and decides to say "F that" and attack.

    As for propaganda and George Bush and so on, here in America, when we have a dumbass (or dumbasses) in office, we vote them. In Iran, you have a bunch of religious nutcases. Religious nutcases+nukes=does not mix. End of story.

    As for Israel, I believe Edgar put it best--there's no "death to America" coming from there. And guess what? America isn't a fair arbitrator. We have our own interests at heart.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  4. #54
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    International consensus doesn't want Iran to have nuclear weapons. There are like three nations who are saying "give Iran a chance, maybe its for peaceful purposes after all.": its Venezuela, Brasil, and North Korea. And most likely the only reason Brazil is part of that wack pack is because they have lots crap to sell to Iran and they figured they are far enough from middle east and north America that none of the radioactive fall out lands on them.

    Roman era? Let me tell you about Roman era. At one point, Carthage was as big of an empire as Rome. Most people never even heard of Carthage. You know why? Because when Roman finally defeated Carthage, they massacred good portion of its people, enslaved the rest, burned cities to the ground, salted the earth, and wiped out all historical records, aside from the ones they wrote themselves which stated something along the lines off: Carthaginians practiced child sacrifice and Hannibal was a monster.

    America hands out food, rebuilds infrastructure, and takes on refugees from the countries it defeats. As far as super powers go, America is the sweetest, kindest, warmest one the world has ever seen. You wouldn't be talking shit in public if Ghengis Khan conquered your nation.
    And so it should be acceptable to watch the USA override all rules, abandon all morals, all forms of justice and accept what a super-power does just because it is "supposedly" more benevolent then it's predecessors?, is that what your saying?. Why should a school accept the behavior of schoolyard bully, because his means are more subtle and less violent then the previous one?. Any human with a shred of decency knows the importance of protesting against this and counter mending it.

    I have never heard of anyone publicly stating that Iran should be allowed to create nukes. Irans political allies however are naturally behind Iran in it's Nuclear projects.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Oh? So Iran really likes America and Israel is the one who wants God to smite us into the sea?

    Well OK, if you say so.
    There is a reason why the Iranian government and the Iranian people have a beef with the government of the USA.

    1.The current government in Iran was formed from the revolution against the USA installed Shah, for a good reason.
    2. America supplied Baathist Iraq with arms and chemical weapons that caused millions of deaths in the Iran-Iraqi war. The effects of the aftermath are still present in the forms of radiation and reoccuring birth defects.
    3. USA continues to undermine and pursue hostilities with Iran.

    They have every right to be pissed off at the Ronald Reagan legacy still practiced by the USA. Don't tell me any nation of people, least of all the people of the USA would tolerate this kind of thing happening to their societies. Iran wouldn't antagonize the USA if it wasn't the case, simply because it would have no reason to. And i think if the USA stopped pursuing these sort foreign policies, things would return to normal. There would be no incentive then. They would be saving themselves a lot of trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Did you watch some Arab Legaue spiel before YOUR comments? "Iran doesn't mean any of that death to America stuff. Its those two faced Jews you Americans should be afraid of."
    No that's not what i was saying. Don't put words in my mouth Edgar. The point of bringing up Israel in this discussion, is because of the need for balanced criticism. People here are so misinformed on the situation in the Middle-east that they would be willing to criticize Iran simply because of what their media implies, but on the other hand neglect Israel which is just as important to scrutinize for the same reasons that they choose to use in the first place.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Here is my claim to moral high ground: America treats its people better than Iran treats its people... by a wide margin.
    Obviously. But can it maintain that "given" moral high ground by antagonizing others, like in the case of Iran. I don't think so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    And no, I'm not pulling your leg dude.
    Well that kind of hints to your credientals.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    People here are so misinformed on the situation in the middle-east that they would be willingly to criticize Iran but neglect Israel which is just as important to scrutinize for the same reasons that they choose in the first place.
    I know of several North American intellectuals who criticize Israel's bad behavior although they are an ally of the U.S., and some of those people speaking out against Israel's actions are Jewish-American.


    Carry on.

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