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  1. #41
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strawberries View Post
    ^absolutely. this is not about ahmadinejad. he's a muppet.
    Ha, just was i was going to say that (but replace the initial m with a p. )
    Lets face it, all our world leaders are intellectuals.
    That's sarcasm-the lowest form of wit-oh the ambiguity

    Quote Originally Posted by strawberries View Post
    let's be real:
    - the US has nuclear weapons. arguing about the merit of them having them is moot from an international security point of view. it can be interesting to consider from an ideological point of view - in an undergraduate university paper kind of way.
    - international law is a blunt instrument - it doesn't and won't protect us from nuclear war.
    It's just a power thing, oh look at us, we gots bigger guns...

    Quote Originally Posted by strawberries View Post
    setting aside the posturing on terrorism, palestine, iraq etc in this thread - does anyone seriously believe that iran should have nuclear weapons? if so - you crazy. iran is a basket case republic.
    Nope, they should not. But then, who should?
    "We knew he was someone who had a tragic flaw, that's where his greatness came from"

  2. #42
    shadow boxer strawberries's Avatar
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    i'm not interested in writing first year university papers anymore.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    A land invasion of Imperial Japan was estimated to cause 1,000,000 casualties.
    Yes, in the event of the invasion of Japan, the Emperor had already given the order to kill all prisoners of war, including Australian prisoners of war.

    So should the atomic bombs not have been dropped, I wouldn't be here.

  4. #44
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    We're talking about the current state of affairs, not what happened years ago, as we're making a determination NOW, based on Iran's CURRENT STATE, not it's historical state.
    If your willing to point fingers at Iran's agenda and not NATO dealings in the local area, you really are deluded. And you have no idea whats going on.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    It subsidizes terrorism in Lebanon and in Gaza. It uses rhetoric to create international tension, suspicion, and animosity. It suppresses free speech in its own country. It has systematically prevented the UN's inspection of its supposedly peaceful nuclear program. You have to be incredibly intellectually dishonest to compare that to what the US is currently trying to do in the world. Sadly, I don't put it beneath you.
    1. It naturally supports factions in other countries who have a similar agenda to theirs and can serve as proxy, that's textbook standard stuff in the middle-eastern world, it's a part of the proxy wars over there. The USA has the largest stakes in proxies hands down, the USA openly supports dictatorships that loves to suck it's gargantuan dick and continue the integrity of it's interest, simply because it's leadership refuse to step down and the USA are willing to finance them and back them up, since they are cheap and convinent. How about Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, Morocco, Algeria, and some other banana states who regularly break human-rights conventions and murder it's citizens. It makes Iran and Syria look like amateurs in the art of duping other factions.

    2. Iran can flex it's muscles all it want's. It doesn't mean diddly squat. It's necessary to put on a show when your trying to establish yourself as a powerful entity in adjacent regions that are very important to it, especially when pitting yourself against an opponent like Israel who has reputation for being the toughest kid on the bloc. If Iran so wished to do that in the Caucasus it would, but actually it did support Azerbaijan, but for entirely different reasons. Most people claim they are going to kill someone else at a certain point in life, but they never do the actual killing, only a minuscule amount of damaged individuals go ahead and do the deed.

    Syria and Baathist Iraq did the same to Israel for a very very long time. But they only acted on their threats in subtle half-hearted measures like giving some token support or financing Anti-Israel agenda's among the Lebanese and the Palestinians. And so far, neither have meet with anything but small success, they've actually undermined themselves, by giving Israel a reason to complain and opt for support because of "extremists, SYRIA, IRAN AND SADDAM". While most certainly it has been monumental to their influence in regions like Lebanon and Palestine, but in damaging Israel, it has done utterly little. Maybe a Qassam rocket will hit a Israeli bus or two every 2 decades, or a skirmish which leads to a couple of Israeli deaths. But that's a drop in the sea at most. But of course there are entirely different but ulterior motivations to the story, probably ones neither of us will have any access to in our life time.

    3. Nuclear weapons or not, i doubt the UN would have approved. It's not the first time the USA uses the UN as a gimmick to hamper defiant nations from progressing technologically(think of Cuba) and becoming up to par. It's one of the many tools used as political pressure. EU and Russia do it all the time. It especially effects the economic sector, where things like nuclear power and optimizing technology can be vital or grandly beneficial improvements.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    So killing people, innocent people, is somehow justified in your twisted world? WTF is wrong with you?.
    Maybe not. But do you expect anything less from people who've seen their brethren disintegrate with impunity?. Their attack was not any less heinous then USA Food sanctions, organized death squads, anti-communist activities that have destroyed millions of people over the years. 9/11 is just more directly visible and emotionally appealing to a mass audience of the most powerful bloc at the moment, and the western governments deliberately monopolize the media to make political maneuvers easier, war on terror and all that bullcocky. But again that's relative, people don't talk about what happens on the other side of the fence, since most of the time they are ignorant happy-clapping idiots who believe in their own governments justifications and political formulations, and are totally oblivious to the reality behind it. You of all should know better.

    Terrorist organization's may not respect the Geneva convention or the bill of human rights, but neither does the USA, or any government which promotes it's interest's. There was reason 9/11 happened, and it wasn't because a bunch of crazy fanatic's one day decided they would intrude into the USA to cause a national tragedy for no apparent cause. Terrorists, and even fanatics have a good reason to exist. They don't conveniently spawn out of a vacuum and declare themselves the mortal enemies of liberty, freedom and western values. They are created through years of incinerating discontent, delusions, hate and observations that lead them to conclusions and of course more practical goals like political power over local dominions.


    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Deep down I realize you're a who's straying off topic again because he can't think straight. This is about whether denying Iran nuclear weaponry is "fair," not how racist and idiotic your arguments are and how poor your understanding of history is.
    Do you have any proof that Iran at all has any intentions of obtaining nuclear weapons?. No you don't, but you'll take it for granted, considering you have no idea how the middle-east operates. And even if Iran wanted to conceive nukes, why should it not proceed to gain access to them?. Is Iran not entitled to practice it's sovereignty?, why should Iran be stopped in it's pursuits?, and Israels extensive secret nuclear programmes condoned and overlooked, despite it's glaringly evident existence. In the long run Iran obtaining a Nuclear weapon would give it a balancing political leverage over Israel. It would hinder anything called ww3, since both parties would have too much to lose, and a war would be an unthinkable option. Actually with or without nukes, it would still be unthinkable. Iran already has more then enough fire power to blow Israel and it's denizens into the arms of Elohim. But Israels 50 nukes which it most certainly would use if threatened by an extremities, would be also be able to wipe out the entire populace of the Iranian plateau.

    As much as you would like to think of IRAN as some kind of unstable and untrustworthy third world country, that is suspicious, Iran by all means has a right to arm itself and defend itself by all means necessary, like any political apparatus that is sovereign over it's territorial mass. This is not early 20th century, Iran doesn't belong to any imperial entity, you can't bully it's locals into submission, just because you assume they are irresponsible, (which isn't really the case, it's more about maintaining control over the region then anything else). They have a right to govern themselves and practice technological research at their wish without being internationally gang banged by a superpower and it's gangbanger friends, just as your people do, and any nation on earth.

    But the USA kind of has trouble with that, especially when it conflicts with their preferred image of an area of interest. So usually they'll do whatever they can to undermine and remold it. Think south America. The Middle-east really is only one facet of this game.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    In the long run Iran obtaining a Nuclear weapon would give it a balancing political leverage over Israel. It would hinder anything called ww3, since both parties would have too much to lose.
    Unfortunately they believe the apocalypse will herald the coming of the Mahdi.

    And so it is their religious duty to bring on the apocalypse with the use of nuclear weapons.

  6. #46
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Unfortunately they believe the apocalypse will herald the coming of the Mahdi.

    And so it is their religious duty to bring on the apocalypse with the use of nuclear weapons.
    It's propaganda rhetoric in the terms of "WE SHALL ACHIEVE VICTORY NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE WE ARE RIGHTEOUS AND SUPERIOR", kind of like the shit Hitler pulled in order to keep his audience from disheartening and keeping the discontent inline during the last years of the war. This stuff is designed for patriotic village idiots. It's not meant to be taken seriously or literally.

    Any less then when George bush declares that god and Jebus Christ told him to invade Iraq and that he is a new age crusader. This stuff has political reasons. It rallies idiots, and it's an open provocation. Nothing more and nothing less. You have to be pretty damned daft of a leader in order to believe in your own cheaply concocted bullshit. It stinks of manure. And ahmadinejad may be alot of things, but he is definitely not an idiot. Unless your daddy covers for you like dubya, it takes alot of shrewdness, skill and merit to raise to the rank of president in the political arena of anywhere. This is not something a narrow-minded ardent village idiot is capable of.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    It's propaganda rhetoric in the terms of "WE SHALL ACHIEVE VICTORY NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE WE ARE RIGHTEOUS AND SUPERIOR", kind of like the shit Hitler pulled in order to keep his audience from disheartening and keeping the discontent inline during the last years of the war. This stuff is designed for patriotic village idiots. It's not meant to be taken seriously or literally.

    Any less then when George bush declares that god and Jebus Christ told him to invade Iraq and that he is a new age crusader. This stuff has political reasons. It rallies idiots, and it's an open provocation. Nothing more and nothing less. You have to be pretty damned daft of a leader in order to believe in your own cheaply concocted bullshit. It stinks of manure. And ahmadinejad may be alot of things, but he is definitely not an idiot. Unless your daddy covers for you like dubya, it takes alot of shrewdness, skill and merit to raise to the rank of president in the political arena of anywhere. This is not something a narrow-minded ardent village idiot is capable of.
    The problem is that it is so easy to believe our own propaganda. We all do.

  8. #48
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post

    tl;dr
    Here's the dilio, Muammar. I don't like Iranian regime. I have no problem with Persians, but I have a problem with fanatical Islam that ayatollahs preach. Women wearing veils, public executions, oppressions of other religions and the outlawing of general human freedoms - that shit bothers me. And God forbid if that virus of an ideology catches on like some bubonic plague and ruins otherwise beautiful countries like Lebanon, which would most likely join the sane western community if it wasn't for the Iranian sponsored Hezbollah.

    Now we might not have an air tight proof that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons... but if there even one fucking iota of a chance that that is in fact true, I have no problem with Israel bombing every suspected site in that country, even it happens to be under a madrassa full of students quietly studying "the religion of peace".

    I know what you're probably going to say - US assists other shithole countries like Pakistan who engage in various similar shenanigans as Iran. Frankly, I'm not a fan of that. I don't know whether that is worth "the greater good" that some folks in the White House and DoD might think it is, and I don't really have enough info to say for sure myself. At the very least, that's playing with fire, and I frown upon that.

    Anyway, having sad that, I really don't want that fucking clown Ahmadinejad and his puppet masters getting their grubby hands on the nukes, or anything else potent or worthwhile, for that matter.

    And if (and I take no glee in saying this) some people will have to die for that not to happen, I'd rather it would be someone in Tehran than New York.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  9. #49
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Here's the dilio, Muammar. I don't like Iranian regime. I have no problem with Persians, but I have a problem with fanatical Islam that ayatollahs preach. Women wearing veils, public executions, oppressions of other religions and the outlawing of general human freedoms - that shit bothers me. And God forbid if that virus of an ideology catches on like some bubonic plague and ruins otherwise beautiful countries like Lebanon, which would most likely join the sane western community if it wasn't for the Iranian sponsored Hezbollah.
    Thats another inherit bias when discussing Politics. This is a problem, people decide their views on the matter based on external looks rather then and how apparently their own values jive with them. Iran operates as an asshole state and they do impede on human rights. There is no doubt about that, they are a part of hierarchical sham system that has yet to be demolished in middle-east. But that doesn't mean you should dismiss them or not examine in what contexts they operate internationally. As much as you disagree with them, they do have the right to practice their projects and pursuits. By using this pelicular logic, a lot of states would be undermined due to this scrutiny. Some who are USA protectorates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Now we might not have an air tight proof that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons... but if there even one fucking iota of a chance that that is in fact true, I have no problem with Israel bombing every suspected site in that country, even it happens to be under a madrassa full of students quietly studying "the religion of peace".
    Wait... a second, what about Israeli nukes?, would you support bombing israeli nuke sites in preventive measure?. By the same coin they would be just as disastrous if not more so. Israeli is like a 10 year old kid with a shotgun, it's unpredictable and can at any moment go amok if threatened.

    By all fairness, shouldn't Israel be accounted by the same measuring stick?. Or have you really bought that bullshit about their cultural ties with the west, and their apparent respect for human rights. Do you really support Israel, simply because they have a western appeal to you?. Seriously man, this is not the 20th century, we don't classify people based on how Hutu or Tutsi they look. You don't support a country based on a how it looks or how "civil" it's exterior looks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I know what you're probably going to say - US assists other shithole countries like Pakistan who engage in various similar shenanigans as Iran. Frankly, I'm not a fan of that. I don't know whether that is worth "the greater good" that some folks in the White House and DoD might think it is, and I don't really have enough info to say for sure myself. At the very least, that's playing with fire, and I frown upon that.
    At least your willing to acknowledge this. If you really want to understand the issue, read about political history from the 1950 to the 1990's in middle-east. It's one of the most important historical lines in history. Either that or some additional MBTI theory .


    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Anyway, having sad that, I really don't want that fucking clown Ahmadinejad and his puppet masters getting their grubby hands on the nukes, or anything else potent or worthwhile, for that matter.
    Yes but, that is totally unbased. I already explained in my earlier post that Nukes would never be used if obtained, with or without them, Iran is still going to be the Iran of yesterday. And besides this implies also that you would support other political maneuvers and blockages of other things if they can be labeled "Dangerous". You really shouldn't make such blunders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    And if (and I take no glee in saying this) some people will have to die for that not to happen, I'd rather it would be someone in Tehran than New York.
    This pretty much sums the extent to which people have been blinded and desensitized to their own governments actions in the west, text book example of manufacturing consent. I am going to hold my breath and wait for the idiot who will cite human taxonomic systems and social identity.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  10. #50
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    As much as you disagree with them, they do have the right to practice their projects and pursuits.
    LOL.

    Right? What right? Divine right? What on earth are you talking about? "Sovereign" right? Who gives a shit. Are you claiming that the whole world order will collapse if you don't respect Iran's right to acquire nuclear weapons? Haha. Fuck them and their "rights".

    Wait... a second, what about Israeli nukes?, would you support bombing israeli nuke sites in preventive measure?.
    Israel doesn't chant "death to America" in their parliament. Israel is a very nice place to visit, where you can do pretty much anything that's allowed in any other civilized country without the fear of "vice police" lashings. I've got no problem with Israel.

    Yes but, that is totally unbased. I already explained in my earlier post that Nukes would never be used if obtained, with or without them, Iran is still going to be the Iran of yesterday.
    Oh great idea, genius. Let the belligerent nation run by religious fanatics (who believe they will get 72 virgins in paradise upon martyrdom) have the nukes. ITS OK, THEY WON'T USE THEM.

    This pretty much sums the extent to which people have been blinded and desensitized to their own governments actions in the west, text book example of manufacturing consent. I am going to hold my breath and wait for the idiot who will cite human taxonomic systems and social identity.
    No YOU'RE the one who is blinded by bullshit rhetoric of "fairness amongst nations". Who came up with that concept anyway? Who spent billions of dollars repairing conquered belligenerent nations through the Marshall Plan and who is footing the majority of UN bills? Here's a clue - it isn't anyone from the middle east.

    See, I don't pretend about "fair". I clearly told you that I favor western ideaology over that of fundamentalist Islam. And the sooner that vile theocracy is destroyed, the better.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

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