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  1. #21
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    He does not have access to our country to investigate for himself. His culture perhaps does not value life as ours does (Life is HUGE in America) and it might be difficult for him to emotionally grasp how deplorable the thought of killing innocent Americans to advance a political agenda actually is to us.
    He has all the access to information any normal American citizen does (and more besides, you do realize he has a national intelligence agency at his disposal, don't you?) and his paranoia over the motives and morality of the American government is beside the point; there was no 9/11 conspiracy on the part of the American government because no government could hope to pull off a conspiracy of that magnitude under conditions prevalent in the United States (free media, lots of witnesses, the need for effectively hundreds of thousands to millions of conspirators to keep their mouths shut, etc.), there is no evidence to suggest that there was a conspiracy, and all the conspiracy theories have been thoroughly debunked. In other words, believing in 9/11 conspiracies is on the same intellectual plane as believing that the holocaust never happened (which Ahmadinejad also believes). Anyone who allows their pathological antipathies to overwhelm basic sense qualifies as someone who is engaging in either willful and dangerous ignorance or insincere propoganda. In either case, walking out on the speech (and at minimum not applauding it afterwards) is the proper response.

  2. #22
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    9/11 I dont believe was staged, if it had been then it was incredibly well staged because Bush and company sure didnt react like they knew what was happening, they where terrified, more so than a lot of average Americans and to this day I think the average American is more terrified by terrorists than anyone else. Contrast it with the UK, terrorists bomb the buses one day, the next people are qued up complaining that they arent running on time. Or compare it with Northern Ireland, the terrorists are generally people everyone knows or who live in the same neighbourhoods as everyone else.
    I dunno, you gotta admit, "lone psycho going into an office building and shooting up coworkers," as we are more used to, going to "several guys run two 747s into large office buildings" is a bit of a leap for most people.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #23
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I dunno, you gotta admit, "lone psycho going into an office building and shooting up coworkers," as we are more used to, going to "several guys run two 747s into large office buildings" is a bit of a leap for most people.
    Terror is terror is terror if you ask me.

    Although I suppose that the US hasnt had the threat of a strike to deal with quite like the rest of the world. The response to the Cuban missile crisis illustrated that well enough.

  4. #24
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Anyone who believes that 9/11 was an inside job, is just not firing on all cylinders. Ahmadinejad is a head-of-state, and not uneducated, so for him to espouse these rediculous fringe theories is the height of absurdity.
    With any hope, his superiors in Iran will realize that all of this sabre rattling will likely have the effect of galvanizing nations against them, making sanctions, and an airstrike, more likely. They would be better served to put someone less vociferous in his place, and continue their strategic plans less visibly.

  5. #25
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Terror is terror is terror if you ask me.
    We've had three crazies this year -- or was it four? Though it's arguable whether they'd all be considered terrorism. Even Ft. Hood most people forgot about after a week.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #26
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Imagine if someone told the US you couldn't have nukes while all the other boys play with them?
    What if someone told the US to not have nuclear powerplants?
    You'd be stuck in the stone age with really dirty and expensive electric power and no power on an international scale.

    I say that it's no wonder he's desperate.
    But, I don't like Ahmadinejad as a person. Hell, who does?
    That does not justify the treatment of Iran, though.
    They just want to be a nation with the right to decide for themselves.
    Sure, they want to fight Israel, too.
    But, that's our (the UN countries) fault.
    I'm writing this reply for other posters, not for you, because I think you're pretty much hopeless.

    Your logic is awful. So, because one country should have nukes, all countries should have nukes. This is not what fairness requires. Fairness demands that people in the same circumstances with the same qualities get the same treatment, assuming there's a surplus of inventory.

    The main problem with your argument is that Iran is not the same as every country with regards to its behavior. Iran is belligerent, unpredictable, and politically unstable. (Who's fault it is is irrelevant to the question of whether they should receive weapons.) Fairness does not require that you give someone acting belligerently nuclear weapons to play with. And please don't give me that crap about Iran just wanting energy. Even you're not that stupid, I hope.

    Suppose you're teaching a cooking class and one of your students is narcoleptic. Does fairness require that you let him hold a knife while cutting carrots? Of course not, because he's not in the same position with the same abilities as your other students. A teacher would be wise to forbid that student from handling a knife, not unfair.

    Israel shouldn't have existed to begin with...
    I'm not going to address your antisemitic rant because it's completely off topic, not to mention factually absurd.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I'm writing this reply for other posters, not for you, because I think you're pretty much hopeless.

    Your logic is awful. So, because one country should have nukes, all countries should have nukes. This is not what fairness requires. Fairness demands that people in the same circumstances with the same qualities get the same treatment, assuming there's a surplus of inventory.

    The main problem with your argument is that Iran is not the same as every country with regards to its behavior. Iran is belligerent, unpredictable, and politically unstable. (Who's fault it is is irrelevant to the question of whether they should receive weapons.) Fairness does not require that you give someone acting belligerently nuclear weapons to play with. And please don't give me that crap about Iran just wanting energy. Even you're not that stupid, I hope.

    Suppose you're teaching a cooking class and one of your students is narcoleptic. Does fairness require that you let him hold a knife while cutting carrots? Of course not, because he's not in the same position with the same abilities as your other students. A teacher would be wise to forbid that student from handling a knife, not unfair.

    I'm not going to address your antisemitic rant because it's completely off topic, not to mention factually absurd.
    The problem with your argument is your belief that the US is allowed nuclear weapons based on political stability and predictability (or whatever your reasons), but the US has no doubt made serious mistakes (Hiroshima, etc). So what about past behavior...or even present behavior? Latin America, Iraq... By your logic, the US shouldn't have weapons either. It's a self-indulgent child who has done much wrong in the past using their military prowess. Probably no country on the map should have any weapons based on past behavior/current situations. Iran does not trust the West to protect them if they are under attack so they feel the need to protect themselves. That's very reasonable for a nation. The values of their country is completely different from ours. Do we really have the power to determine that our civilization is worthy of protection but not theirs? Their civilization has been reduced to radical terrorist activity, but they are more than that. Is it really unreasonable for them to be fearful that the US/the West will wipe their civilization/their way of life out?

    Who gave the US the right to monitor the usage of nuclear weapons? Or any of the Western countries in general? His argument is logically consistent. Yes, Iran with nuclear weapons is dangerous. Iran is dangerous because it is politically unstable and undemocratic. But so is the American government and military dangerous based on past behavior, esp. to non-western countries. The US isn't innocent in all of this, far from it.

  8. #28
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    It's the nation of Israel that I am concerned about.
    As much concerned about it as I would be about any nation responsible for heinous war crimes.
    Some of the worst in history, actually.
    Some of the worst in history?

    Really?

    Genocides, for instance?

    -----

    Can you quote a "heinous Israeli war crime" that could compare, even from far away, with what China, Russia, Germany, France, the UK, the Caliphate, Byzantines, Ancient Greece, the Roman empire, Persia, the Mongols, Indonesia, Japan, the US, Austria, Poland, Turkey, Rwanda, Cambodia, Algeria, Morocco, Spain, the islamic empires in Africa ...etc... did in the past?

    I would be very surprised.

    Then I will ask once again: why are you so obsessed with Jews? What have they done to you?
    Have you ever set foot in the Middle-East?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #29
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    The problem with your argument is your belief that the US is allowed nuclear weapons based on political stability and predictability (or whatever your reasons), but the US has no doubt made serious mistakes (Hiroshima, etc). So what about past behavior...or even present behavior? Latin America, Iraq... By your logic, the US shouldn't have weapons either. It's a self-indulgent child who has done much wrong in the past using their military prowess. Probably no country on the map should have any weapons based on past behavior/current situations. Iran does not trust the West to protect them if they are under attack so they feel the need to protect themselves. That's very reasonable for a nation. The values of their country is completely different from ours. Do we really have the power to determine that our civilization is worthy of protection but not theirs? Their civilization has been reduced to radical terrorist activity, but they are more than that. Is it really unreasonable for them to be fearful that the US/the West will wipe their civilization/their way of life out?

    Who gave the US the right to monitor the usage of nuclear weapons? Or any of the Western countries in general? His argument is logically consistent. Yes, Iran with nuclear weapons is dangerous. Iran is dangerous because it is politically unstable and undemocratic. But so is the American government and military dangerous based on past behavior, esp. to non-western countries. The US isn't innocent in all of this, far from it.
    The problem with your argument is that whether the US is allowed to get nuclear weapons is not at issue since they already have them. That conversation already happened, unfortunately.

    Besides, even if you assume that the US is unstable, which I disagree with, giving nukes to more unstable countries solves nothing.

  10. #30
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    I think hes FUNNY!! seriously, its a fucking comedy skit folks. or unfunny satire if you prefer. He's actually a lot like Bush, in that people get so easily suckered into what he's saying and the dramatic poise he takes each and every opportunity.

    Just look at ahmadinejad's face, srsly. He has that stoner look as if he's thinking "ok, here dudes, here's what I'm going to tell them next *giggles*, about the Jews..."

    in other words, he's an act. I'm not saying Iran isn't serous and it's not a thread, i'm just saying THIS guy is pure daytime soap opera drama. He's pretty good at it too, it would seem. He does it every fucking time, too.... think about it.

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