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  1. #31
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You shouldn't. Policy arguments are much better, compared to more formalistic arguments such as original intent or textualism. It's just that people like formalism as a means of philosophical thinking, and will do anything to conceive of an objective form of law. Problem is that no such thing exists, and in the end, we just want to settle a dispute (in this case, what to do with children of undocumented immigrants).

    OK, but the rules come from the Constitution. We have to look at what the damn Amendment says. It's not like we can just come up with a new definition for its meaning to fit every situation. That is ludicrous.
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  2. #32
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    OK, but the rules come from the Constitution. We have to look at what the damn Amendment says. It's not like we can just come up with a new definition for its meaning to fit every situation. That is ludicrous.
    We live in a common law system, and not a civil law system. Common law systems work with living documents - we have a document to use as the fertile soil, and then we understand that law based on the expediencies of the day. The civil law creates a theoretically gapless code and then applies the law based on its relationship to fact patterns.

    If our constitution wasn't supposed to be interpreted and built upon, it would have been a hundred-page document like the European Constitution, defining every last point of function, and not a four-page document.

  3. #33
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    You shouldn't. Policy arguments are much better, compared to more formalistic arguments such as original intent or textualism. It's just that people like formalism as a means of philosophical thinking, and will do anything to conceive of an objective form of law. Problem is that no such thing exists, and in the end, we just want to settle a dispute (in this case, what to do with children of undocumented immigrants).
    People like originalism (textual or otherwise) because its the only way to interperate the Constitution in such a way that the entire point to having a Constitution in the first place-to define and thereby limit the powers of the government-is retained. Otherwise, there is no point to having a Constitution.

  4. #34
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    OK, but the rules come from the Constitution. We have to look at what the damn Amendment says. It's not like we can just come up with a new definition for its meaning to fit every situation. That is ludicrous.
    That's pretty much what onemoretime wants, when you get past his sophistry; a government empowered to do whatever a temporary majority deems appropriate. All in the name of a "government that works." In an earlier debate he actually posited that democratic accountability equals limited government, and that the Fourteenth Amendment nullified the entirety (rather than the scope) of the Tenth Amendment.

  5. #35
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I think it's probably a good idea, but I oppose it because it's bad for me.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    I know this has faded from headlines (obviously, it won't happen) but I realized something today (I do not support this, obviously): Isn't the legal decision that a corporation has same rights or 'is' a person based upon the 14th Amendment? Maybe an unexpected benefit there? Or, perhaps added detriment, depending on point of view?
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  7. #37
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    We need to take all the money we're spending in the middle east and pump it into a war on poverty and drug cartels in Mexico. These problems we're having with the ignorant and criminal cannot be solved by building a wall or making it illegal for them to come into the country. We need to pull them from this sink hole, and create a southern neighbor akin in quality to their northern counterpart.
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  8. #38
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Its presumptively a bad idea to consider amending the constitution in general. Its like tinkering around with brain surgery. I agree with many Republican's that the problem is bad and illegal immigration and its secondary impacts are more harmful than good. That being said its like using the tactic of a sledge hammer to kill a fly...no a swarm of flys...very inefficient and causing extraneous damage ones own surroundings. Plus it will have minimal impact on the overall problem.

    Here is an idea...how about simply securing our boarders so the flood of illegals don't get in and if the do get in ship them back.
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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  9. #39
    XES 5231311252's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    We need to take all the money we're spending in the middle east and pump it into a war on poverty and drug cartels in Mexico. These problems we're having with the ignorant and criminal cannot be solved by building a wall or making it illegal for them to come into the country. We need to pull them from this sink hole, and create a southern neighbor akin in quality to their northern counterpart.
    That money would be better spent on the U.S. education system, and the poverty that's been going on for some time. Hell, maybe it could even help out with the gangs. Fuck Mexico, and fuck the middle east.
    “'Fuck', I think. What a beautiful word. If I could say only one thing for the rest of my life, that would be it.”

  10. #40
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5231311252 View Post
    Fuck Mexico, and fuck the middle east.
    This reminds me of a little song my grandmother used to sing to me...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKSJc2YFPrs
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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