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  1. #41
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    In democracies the attempt to create equality I think has had unintended consequences, most obviously the creation of grievance culture. Democracy is one way of managing minority-majority relations and along with the courts and a legal framework it is the best of the worst.
    Oh, definitely.
    Affirmative action is not only ineffective, but also very condescending to the recipients, IMO...
    If somebody is truly equal to you, then why on Earth would you feel compelled to fed them sympathy and pity?
    That's not equality. : /

    You'll always have some strata of people that are disproportionately impoverished in just about any society, as far as I can imagine.
    People are born into unequal circumstances de facto (frequently being born into bad circumstances has nothing to do with being in any sort of minority group in the first place). There's no way we could ever fix this even if we wanted to.

    What about unattractive people? There's a mighty disadvantaged group, and one that's quite overlooked when the handouts are given. :P
    What does society owe them, I wonder...
    Being extremely unattractive has serious impacts on your employment opportunities, but if somebody were to start a charity for ugly people or try to enact legislation to help them obtain jobs, they would get a whole lot of unkind looks...
    So, what makes it less insulting, and in fact completely acceptable in the eyes of most, to be charitable to people based on their skin color or something of that nature?
    I mean, that's exactly what it is, insulting.
    "Hey, I'm so much than you because I have something and you don't... Here, you had better take some of mine, since you're too weak to get it on your own."

    People are equal if they have the right to succeed; they need not have the means to succeed handed to them on a silver platter.
    And to that end, oft overlooked is the equally important right to fail...
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  2. #42
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    Start with the correct laws, and you won't ever need to change them. ;P
    The various laws that allowed slavery, unwholesome work conditions, and discrimination against the sexes were once viewed as the “correct laws”. No law is created without the legislators thinking as such or at least that it is the “correct” law for those currently in power. The problem with maintaining any set of laws is that they’re always going to be geared towards the issues of the time and to those of the ruling class. Do anything else other than changing the laws through a democratic vote and you end up with an antiquated system based on an even worse form of tyranny than that of the majority.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  3. #43
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
    The various laws that allowed slavery, unwholesome work conditions, and discrimination against the sexes were once viewed as the “correct laws”. No law is created without the legislators thinking as such or at least that it is the “correct” law for those currently in power. The problem with maintaining any set of laws is that they’re always going to be geared towards the issues of the time and to those of the ruling class. Do anything else other than changing the laws through a democratic vote and you end up with an antiquated system based on an even worse form of tyranny than that of the majority.
    The anecdotal statement you quoted was framed from a specific view of mine, which is pretty hyper-libertarian. I think you took it as a general statement?
    Individual sovereignty doesn't require the existence of a lot of laws, it requires the existence of very few laws that prohibit other laws from ever coming into existence.
    Which was more along the lines of what I meant.
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  4. #44
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
    Gemstones are only valuable because people have decided that due to their aethetically pleasing appearance, that they want them, thus increasing the demand.
    Overly simplistic. This is far from the only reason.

    No one particular cares for or treasures a rare strain of bacteria or virus. Likewise, a person isn't to be treasured simply because they belong to a rare group. Not if there isn't a demand for what being part of that group brings to the table.
    The first point is incorrect as well as being a notably fatuous comparison. But I don't think you got what I was saying at all, so... better luck next time eh?
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    All minorities are jewels and all majorities stones?
    He said enemies on your 12, and you did a 180.


  6. #46
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Overly simplistic. This is far from the only reason.
    But it's by far the most important reason. Without demand the entire value of an object falls apart.

    The first point is incorrect as well as being a notably fatuous comparison. But I don't think you got what I was saying at all, so... better luck next time eh?
    How is it incorrect and how is it idiotic? Due to the sheer number of bacterial divisions, several new, rare species and mutated strains come into existence each day. Most of them have a lower monetary value than the relatively common culture used to develop your yogurt. You're going to have to provide some rather strong evidence to justify a claim that the entire argument is asinine.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

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