User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 46

  1. #31
    Senior Member LunarMoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3
    Socionics
    ENTJ
    Posts
    309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Not really. Consider this: If the word was made of solid gemstone, and a few rocks were embedded in the gemstone, which should we then treasure, rock or gemstone? And how should we know what to call them?
    Gemstones are only valuable because people have decided that due to their aethetically pleasing appearance, that they want them, thus increasing the demand. No one particular cares for or treasures a rare strain of bacteria or virus. Likewise, a person isn't to be treasured simply because they belong to a rare group. Not if there isn't a demand for what being part of that group brings to the table.
    Surgeons replace one of your neurons with a microchip that duplicates its input-output functions. You feel and behave exactly as before. Then they replace a second one, and a third one, and so on, until more and more of your brain becomes silicon. Since each microchip does exactly what the neuron did, your behavior and memory never change. Do you even notice the difference? Does it feel like dying? Is some other conscious entity moving in with you?
    -Steven Pinker on the Ship of Theseus Paradox

  2. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    470

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I know a lot of worthless individuals.
    Well if you can't ensure the rights of one individual worthless or not, what would that mean for yourself?

  3. #33
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    Well, I don't think that people should gain or lose any rights by virtue of being part of a certain group, minority or majority.
    I don't think anyone owes anyone anything other than respect as equals.
    Which is admirable...

    ... so how is that implemented when a majority vision (which sees things one way) is making decisions for minorities within the culture? Equality doesn't just spring magically out of the ground.

    I'd say a lot of the inequalities might have risen innocently, due to lack of understanding/perception that what one group of people experienced wasn't another group's experience... but that doesn't change the fact that the inequality exists.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #34
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    INT-
    Posts
    294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Which is admirable...

    ... so how is that implemented when a majority vision (which sees things one way) is making decisions for minorities within the culture? Equality doesn't just spring magically out of the ground.

    I'd say a lot of the inequalities might have risen innocently, due to lack of understanding/perception that what one group of people experienced wasn't another group's experience... but that doesn't change the fact that the inequality exists.
    Don't let the majority make decisions for the minority then.

    I'm not big on democracy... Two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for dinner.
    Start with the correct laws, and you won't ever need to change them. ;P
    But since the OP did specify the context of democratic societies, I don't think I have anything to add, so I'll bow out now.

    Thank you for your reply.
    INTP 4w5 SX/SP
    Tritype 4/5/8

  5. #35
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Well if you can't ensure the rights of one individual worthless or not, what would that mean for yourself?
    Ensure the rights? How do you mean?

  6. #36
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Which is admirable...

    ... so how is that implemented when a majority vision (which sees things one way) is making decisions for minorities within the culture? Equality doesn't just spring magically out of the ground.

    I'd say a lot of the inequalities might have risen innocently, due to lack of understanding/perception that what one group of people experienced wasn't another group's experience... but that doesn't change the fact that the inequality exists.
    Like I said, the only thing a majority owes the minority is the same individual rights. Other inequalities fall under the framework of societal bargaining, not the blunt instrument of government coercion, which endangers the individual rights of both minorities and majorities. Context-specific compromises can be made for the purpose of ensuring the practical implementation of the equal rights principle, but not for other forms of inequality without jettisoning the entire rights paradigm, both practically and as a matter of principle (for those like me who think that the latter affects reality).

  7. #37
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Which is admirable...

    ... so how is that implemented when a majority vision (which sees things one way) is making decisions for minorities within the culture? Equality doesn't just spring magically out of the ground.

    I'd say a lot of the inequalities might have risen innocently, due to lack of understanding/perception that what one group of people experienced wasn't another group's experience... but that doesn't change the fact that the inequality exists.
    I find that really curious, so if equality doesnt magically spring out of the ground I'm assuming you're saying its totally inorganic? How does it come about then? What is equality if its just a legal artifice and vanishes when no one is policing/enforcing it?

    I'll agree that inquality might have risen innocently but I would also suggest that what is perceived as inequality and unfair inequality at that by some of those crying foul is organically evolved/arisen norms the tampering with which will harm everyone. Eventually even the minorities the tampering was aiming to benefit.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    Don't let the majority make decisions for the minority then.

    I'm not big on democracy... Two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for dinner.
    Start with the correct laws, and you won't ever need to change them. ;P
    But since the OP did specify the context of democratic societies, I don't think I have anything to add, so I'll bow out now.

    Thank you for your reply.
    To an extent I agree with what you have said about democracy, the aphorism about a sheep and two wolves is a good one, I've heard others too.

    Although I do tend to consider Churchill's perspective that democracy is the worst possible system, apart from all the others to be true too, its also the context in which I, and I'm assuming the majority of other posters, live in hence choosing to discuss minority-majority relations that way.

    I also think there's a certain sense in which people behave can and do behave democratically and it is a feature of group dynamics, that's taken a long time to emerge and I'm pretty sure its culturally specific but its none the less how it is.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    INT-
    Posts
    294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Although I do tend to consider Churchill's perspective that democracy is the worst possible system, apart from all the others to be true too...
    Yeah, I would agree with that sentiment...
    My "ideal" political climate has very few instances of existence throughout history.

    I think democracy hinges upon good people to work (well, that's obvious I guess, duh).
    And fortunately, the overwhelming majority of people are good...
    So hey, here we are.
    But of course, the precedent for abuse always exists, and sadly is often enough availed to.

    So what if you quite clearly define that everyone is equal in your constitution, and you eliminate (or work to eliminate) institutionalized racism/sexism/whateverism...
    Do you need to do anything beyond that, to keep a democracy "fair"?
    I would say, no.
    INTP 4w5 SX/SP
    Tritype 4/5/8

  10. #40
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    9 so/sx
    Posts
    21,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan.of.Devin View Post
    Yeah, I would agree with that sentiment...
    My "ideal" political climate has very few instances of existence throughout history.

    I think democracy hinges upon good people to work (well, that's obvious I guess, duh).
    And fortunately, the overwhelming majority of people are good...
    So hey, here we are.
    But of course, the precedent for abuse always exists, and sadly is often enough availed to.

    So what if you quite clearly define that everyone is equal in your constitution, and you eliminate (or work to eliminate) institutionalized racism/sexism/whateverism...
    Do you need to do anything beyond that, to keep a democracy "fair"?
    I would say, no.
    I would agree with that and would even go so far as to say that the obligations of minorities and majorities to one another are cut and dried that way.

    In democracies the attempt to create equality I think has had unintended consequences, most obviously the creation of grievance culture. Democracy is one way of managing minority-majority relations and along with the courts and a legal framework it is the best of the worst.

    The idea of democracy as a popular sovereignty in which everyone is trained to be the leaders of tommorrow appeals to me, however in a culture which has diminished personal responsibility and an over reliance on experts its a pipe dream. The opportunity was lost back at the time of the managerial revolution and wont be recovered now but that's a seperate topic maybe...

Similar Threads

  1. Seeking help from people in Biology and related fields/majors
    By ygolo in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-25-2009, 02:44 AM
  2. Double Majoring & Minoring & Career..ing
    By rainoneventide in forum Academics and Careers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-28-2009, 10:09 AM
  3. INTRO ; MBTI & Co-relation wt. Keirsey 4 Temperaments
    By Rakesh in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-01-2007, 09:06 AM
  4. Relational Competition and "Social" Bullying
    By Maverick in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 05-24-2007, 08:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO