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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    The email was too him.
    The action was carried out by those who work for him.
    The action was carried out under his name.

    As for the language, I saw no point in making such fine differentiations as I'm not defensive about the subject and nor am I trying this in a court. Aside from that, good point...
    You're trying to imply culpability when there probably is none.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #22
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    One, you do not shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, two you do not say "bomb!" in an airport, and three, you do not send emails that can be construed as threatening to the President. This is just how things are in the US.

    Also one should consider that no action was taken against him -- the US did not call for his extradition or anything. He was just told that he was not welcome. Which, while this seems bizarre and may be tragic in his future, doesn't seem much different than being told never to come to the library ever again because you have a late fee of over $100. There are always more libraries.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    It's the year 2116, and all across the United States, a sweeping realization takes hold that the contents of the constitution and the bill of rights are interpretable.

    Reason for the existence of the judiciary is suddenly understood.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #24
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    True, except you couldn't get someone deported for sending you a harassing email.
    Its not the same.

    Using your logic, you can put someone in prison for saying "I hate Obama" and still say that their freedom of speech has been preserved, that it was just a consequence, and that they can still protest from prison in the form of letter. It makes no sense. "Consequences" and freedom are dependent on one another. You can't artificially separate them the way you have without produces absurd results.
    No. You couldnt.

    Rudimentary parents and training someone in manners often involves restrictions on speech. They're not mutually exclusive.
    Yes. What would rudimentary parental training involve re:sending obscene images to foreign heads of state?

  5. #25
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    That's funny, I heard it was a threatening letter, not obscene, and while obscenity is often tolerated as "freedom of speech," threats and slander aren't as well taken. Even if it was a "stupid drunken joking threat," threats tend receive a zero tolerance policy...

    It still seems rather silly and knee-jerky, though.
    In a good society it wouldnt happen, it wouldnt be excuseable, it wouldnt be valourised and people wouldnt take his quarter.

    Whether it was obscene or threatening.

  6. #26
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You're trying to imply culpability when there probably is none.
    True but I consider that more probable than the position of removing the entire incident from the name of the recipient of the email in some kind of white wash or redirect.

    I doubt very much it was important enough for the Pres to read the email in the first place nevermind get involved in the backlash. That's the entire point, it's fricking ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    One, you do not shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater, two you do not say "bomb!" in an airport, and three, you do not send emails that can be construed as threatening to the President. This is just how things are in the US.

    Also one should consider that no action was taken against him -- the US did not call for his extradition or anything. He was just told that he was not welcome. Which, while this seems bizarre and may be tragic in his future, doesn't seem much different than being told never to come to the library ever again because you have a late fee of over $100. There are always more libraries.
    Shouting bomb in an airport doesn't get you shot. Oddly it will get you arrested but only if people believe you... Which is weird.

    But to ban someone, to restrict their movement based on calling someone a prick? That's just massaging an ego with power. Very lame, very weak.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    True but I consider that more probable than the position of removing the entire incident from the name of the recipient of the email in some kind of white wash or redirect.
    A white wash? Can you be any more hyperbolic?

    I doubt very much it was important enough for the Pres to read the email in the first place nevermind get involved in the backlash. That's the entire point, it's fricking ridiculous.
    If I had to guess, I'd say it was probably some underling having a bad day that decided to take it out on someone.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #28
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    A white wash? Can you be any more hyperbolic?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If I had to guess, I'd say it was probably some underling having a bad day that decided to take it out on someone.
    And it got that far?

    Where's them watchmen when you need one?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #29
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Saying 'bomb' in an airport, in the US at least, will get you detained while the authorities determine whether or not you actually have a bomb and I suspect they take their time doing it in order to teach you not to do it again because you've behaved like an ass and made more work for them.

    It happened to my Aunt's sister back in the nineties, I believe. She was one of those people that 'had a mouth on her.'

    If the kid was banned for calling the president names, that is totally wrong and an extreme overreaction. Making threatening statements toward the president, OTOH, is a really big no-no and usually gets a very quick and strong reaction.

    Is their another source for this incident? I don't think I'd be being reactionary to say that FoxNews has a commercial interest in creating bad press for President Obama.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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