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  1. #11
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #12
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    FOXNews.com - British Teen Banned From U.S. for Life After Sending Obscene E-Mail to Obama

    What were we saying about Islamics having to take the rough with the smooth? Shouldn't the big pres be doing likewise?
    Was this decision made by Obama? Your language implies that you believe it was. I see no evidence to support that claim.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #13
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INA View Post
    By what logic?
    I assumed you meant that deporting someone didn't affect their freedom to speak, just the location from which they spoke, am I wrong?

    The public is not taught this already?
    From a legal standpoint, I don't even think it matters. The bill of rights protects free speech, and our courts have decided that political speech is afforded special protection for obvious reasons.

    From a practical standpoint, maybe it would matter, but I don't think that's true. Our government doesn't punish people for criticizing its decisions or organizing protests like Iran does. Will you find examples to the contrary? Maybe, but we're talking about what the public thinks. Isolated examples don't sway public opinion, and I think the large majority of Americans still believe we have freedom of speech.

    Edit: I realize this may not have been political speech, but I was responding to your logic, rather than making a point that this speech should have been protected.

  4. #14
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You are kidding me!

    Listen, if someone was e-mailing me obscene images I would consider a non-molestation order or exclusion order, in the US you might call it a restraining order and I see this as being just the equivalent of that action.
    True, except you couldn't get someone deported for sending you a harassing email.

    I think that it could be a very good lesson that speech may be free but still not without consequences, his freedom of speech is totally uneffected, he is not being prevented from exercising it but if he does he can expect it to have consequences and it has.
    Using your logic, you can put someone in prison for saying "I hate Obama" and still say that their freedom of speech has been preserved, that it was just a consequence, and that they can still protest from prison in the form of letter. It makes no sense. "Consequences" and freedom are dependent on one another. You can't artificially separate them the way you have without produces absurd results.

    This really shouldnt be difficult, it shouldnt be the stuff of politics either, it should be rudimentary parenting, perhaps manners at the very most but its not a freedom of speech issue.
    Rudimentary parents and training someone in manners often involves restrictions on speech. They're not mutually exclusive.

  5. #15
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    That's funny, I heard it was a threatening letter, not obscene, and while obscenity is often tolerated as "freedom of speech," threats and slander aren't as well taken. Even if it was a "stupid drunken joking threat," threats tend receive a zero tolerance policy...

    It still seems rather silly and knee-jerky, though.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #16
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    "Independence limited
    Freedom of choice is made for you my friend
    Freedom of speech is words that they will bend
    Freedom with their exception"

    From : And Justice For All ~ "Eye of the Beholder" , Metallica

  7. #17
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Why do 17 year olds in the UK have such drinking problems?
    Cause we don't make them wait till their 21.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #18
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Was this decision made by Obama? Your language implies that you believe it was. I see no evidence to support that claim.
    The email was too him.
    The action was carried out by those who work for him.
    The action was carried out under his name.

    As for the language, I saw no point in making such fine differentiations as I'm not defensive about the subject and nor am I trying this in a court. Aside from that, good point...
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #19
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    It is doubtful Obama ever saw the email or heard about the decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I assumed you meant that deporting someone didn't affect their freedom to speak, just the location from which they spoke, am I wrong?
    Who got deported? Am I missing something?

  10. #20
    now! in shell form INA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I assumed you meant that deporting someone didn't affect their freedom to speak, just the location from which they spoke, am I wrong?
    yes.

    Was he deported?

    From a legal standpoint, I don't even think it matters. The bill of rights protects free speech, and our courts have decided that political speech is afforded special protection for obvious reasons.
    Do you know what exactly he said?

    Maybe, but we're talking about what the public thinks. Isolated examples don't sway public opinion, and I think the large majority of Americans still believe we have freedom of speech.
    There is freedom of speech and there is freedom from all consequences of any kind of speech. I should hope most realize there is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech as in freedom from all consequence of speech.

    Edit: I realize this may not have been political speech, but I was responding to your logic, rather than making a point that this speech should have been protected.
    But you can't have responded to my logic, since I haven't given one. I asked an as yet unanswered question about an assertion that was based on some information I'm yet to see.
    hoarding time and space
    A single event can awaken within us a stranger totally unknown to us. To live is to be slowly born.
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