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  1. #41
    Oberon
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    The sponge reasons that because Catholicism is irrelevant to the sponge, Catholicism is irrelevant.

  2. #42
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    The sponge reasons that because Catholicism is irrelevant to the sponge, Catholicism is irrelevant.
    That is nothing even close to what my argument is like. I doubt you have attempted to imagine another intrepretation, however.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #43
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Head of a totally irrelevant state. It's bad enough that it's become standard to foot hefty bills for the visit of any head of state, when you think of it. This guy in particular is in charge of a place not even half a square mile which contains nothing of material importance.
    The head of state who's also head of an international organization that comprises of over a billion people is irrelevant? Not to mention because of its international outreach also has one of the most extensive spy networks in the world? That's irrelevant?

  4. #44
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Hmmm... its funny that people are discrediting the political influence and importance of the pope when the last pope was responsible for the markedly
    peaceful attributes of the greatest political upheaval in the last half century.


    "The collapse of the Iron Curtain would have been impossible without John Paul II."
    -Gorbachev
    Yes Stalin remarked "how many battalions does the Pope command?" and 50 years later a Polish Pope gave an answer.

  5. #45
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    The sponge reasons that because Catholicism is irrelevant to the sponge, Catholicism is irrelevant.
    Magic is basically two hundred years too late. He's nostalgic for the good ol' days of 1799.

  6. #46
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Didn't the Brits leave Catholicism a few hundred years ago? I think it would be more appropriate for them to declare war on the Vatican.
    Recusancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    The sponge reasons that because Catholicism is irrelevant to the sponge, Catholicism is irrelevant.
    Hey! Don't knock Solipsism! It makes my world go round!

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That is nothing even close to what my argument is like. I doubt you have attempted to imagine another intrepretation, however.
    Can't speak for Oberon, but I have to report that though I tried my utmost, my own imagination just wasn't up to the task of forming an alternative explanation. It's a real toughie you've set us here, like one of those obscure lateral thinking tests. We might have to get Victor on this one and see if he can come up with something different.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  7. #47
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Hey! Don't knock Solipsism! It makes my world go round!



    Can't speak for Oberon, but I have to report that though I tried my utmost, my own imagination just wasn't up to the task of forming an alternative explanation. It's a real toughie you've set us here, like one of those obscure lateral thinking tests. We might have to get Victor on this one and see if he can come up with something different.
    If must find solipsism in everything but the most rudimentary of arguments then.

    Opposition + complexity =/= solipsism.

    It's hard to keep this from being an insult (not that it would have any affect worse than making me you and Oberon's equal), but you are either being disengenuous about your attempts to understand what I'm saying for the sake of rhetoric, or you are lacking in rationale or perception, in otherwords, not very smart.

    Some say the onus of communication is on the sender of the message rather than the receiver. Even if I take that to be true, I can still expect the receiver to at least attempt to fathom the message I have sent and give a relevant response.

    So you're choices aren't good. You could be a lazy liar, or intellectually feeble. I am kind enough to let you decide which you'd prefer to be called (even kind enough to now allow the rather obviously possibility that you're both).

    If you've found this in any way offensive, my first recommendation is that you actually get back into the topic, where I will meet you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    The head of state who's also head of an international organization that comprises of over a billion people is irrelevant? Not to mention because of its international outreach also has one of the most extensive spy networks in the world? That's irrelevant?
    Like I already said, the number of people supposedly involved is not as important as the influence that is had over them. Could the Pope and his subordinates actually mobilize a significant number of those orginization members to do what they want?

    As for the spy network thing, I am not well informed and that is considerably more interesting. Though, what agenda exactly does a Vatican spy network have?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Magic is basically two hundred years too late. He's nostalgic for the good ol' days of 1799.
    I'm afraid I'm not sure of what you trying to reference in particular here.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #48
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    If must find solipsism in everything but the most rudimentary of arguments then.

    Opposition + complexity =/= solipsism.

    It's hard to keep this from being an insult (not that it would have any affect worse than making me you and Oberon's equal), but you are either being disengenuous about your attempts to understand what I'm saying for the sake of rhetoric, or you are lacking in rationale or perception, in otherwords, not very smart.

    Some say the onus of communication is on the sender of the message rather than the receiver. Even if I take that to be true, I can still expect the receiver to at least attempt to fathom the message I have sent and give a relevant response.

    So you're choices aren't good. You could be a lazy liar, or intellectually feeble. I am kind enough to let you decide which you'd prefer to be called (even kind enough to now allow the rather obviously possibility that you're both).

    If you've found this in any way offensive, my first recommendation is that you actually get back into the topic, where I will meet you.
    So, other than trying to bait me with name calling (which isn't going to work, it just amuses me) and whining about being misunderstood due to the failure of others to understand, without attempting to explain yourself any better (note that several people now have come to similar conclusions about the significance of the position you're taking, it's not just me) what did you actually have to say that was new?

    Repeatedly complaining that no-one understands you, and blaming them for the misunderstanding, instead of considering that the way you express yourself may be leading to that misunderstanding and taking steps to remedy it, just makes you look presumptious and self-absorbed, and causes you to be an ineffective communicator. If this is the best you're prepared to do or are capable of, what do you expect anyone to make of what you're saying?

    It's pretty funny that my comment about solipsism appears to have touched a nerve though, juding by the defensive tone of your response. If it bothers you that much, would it help for me to redefine it in fallacy terms?
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  9. #49
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Jeez, fellas!
    Is this really necessary?

    Rags, looks to me like you're just being provocative without offering an opinion on the topic under discussion. Care to weigh in?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #50
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Jeez, fellas!
    Is this really necessary?
    Fe, you? You started a thread to complain about it the other day, didn't you?

    Rags, looks to me like you're just being provocative without offering an opinion on the topic under discussion. Care to weigh in?
    Nope, actually I was waiting for the Sponge's forthcoming exposition of why his position that he doesn't see why the Pope is any more significant than Michael Jackson, therefore the Pope is no more significant than Michael Jackson, is a valid argument, the true scope and complexity of which is lost on we poor benighted beings who do not posess his own superior understanding of these matters. He appears to be implying that he has something pretty good up his sleeve here, and it's going to have to be good to get me over my current impression that he's just arguing from ignorance and refusing to take into account anything that might leave him better informed. I'm waiting with bated breath to see what he's going to come up with.

    [If your supposition had actually been correct, it would be a bit of a case of the pot telling the kettle it had something of a sooty patina, wouldn't it? ]

    Anyway... my own position for what it's worth is that I don't really care, it's a relatively unimportant amount of money in relative terms compared to the quantity that sinks without trace every year in ill-advised government initiatives or vanishes into the pockets of obstructive bureaucratic time-servers and subsidised fat cats (not to mention all the pointless, nationally self-defeating foreign escapades, the shoring up of the irresponsible banks, and a whole lot more). I don't see what's worth getting worked up about, though I know there are a lot of people who like to dwell on largely symbolic issues (such as the politicians' expenses fiasco recently) rather than deal with pertinent realities which are in far more need of attention.

    It wouldn't surprise me if at least something of the old British anti-Catholic biases are at the root of this, fuelled and given popular legitimacy in more recent times by the ongoing scandals, though I know that the latter are pressing issues for a number of Catholics at present too who are not happy with their own church's conduct (whether this is causing any of them too to oppose the visit I'm not in a position to know). It does strike me that the government helping to cover the costs of this visit is something of a goodwill gesture; and given the historical oppression of Catholicism in the UK by the state and majority population, some of the wounds from which run extremely deep in people's memories and have repercussions to this day, it might help to smooth over past difficulties and establish a more positive future. (If you're not convinced by this, consider the converse, that the goverment makes a point of NOT paying; it seems as though they are being unsupportive of the visit and feeds the flames of tension in those parts of the country where anti-Catholic feelings run high by appearing to give them legitimacy.)

    It's essential at all events that they fork out for effective policing and security if he is to come at all; the Pope is at all times a prime target for assassination for a number of reasons, the potential for international humiliation if he came to harm would be profound, and the British government are in a much better position to provide fully effective security on a visit than his own entourage.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

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