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  1. #111
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Doesn't "normal diplomatic courtesy" include not presenting a bill for room and board? Why is it even a question?
    Apparently some people missed "Diplomacy 101". Issues of the significance of the state in world affairs or whether the majority of people like this head of state are largely irrelevant. A visiting head of state is guranteed courtesy and protection, and ragashee previously offered good reasons why that should be so. Failure to do so on a nation's part can damage its image around the world.

    Most Americans didn't like Nikita Khrushchev, yet tax dollars were provided so the Secret Service could provide him protection. A funny story about that concerns the inability for them to provide adequate security as a major reason why Khrushchev didn't get to visit Disneyland for example. Walt Disney was a staunch anti-Communist, nevertheless even he was disappointed in not being able to show off his amusement park to a world leader.

  2. #112
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    EDIT: You had the option of reporting me for harassment all this time, and yet you chose to wait and bring the issue out into the public arena?
    I gave you the benefit of the doubt as having a dubious sense of humour. I was going to ask what you meant but then couldn't be bothered. The number of accumulated incidents however, means that benefit expired with that last post. Don't presume to know my intentions for starting threads. You know nothing about me.

    1) The tone of the original post. (You seem to have disregarded at least one fact. The Pope doesn't deny the holocaust, he just defended a bishop who did if I'm not mistaken. I figured that in spite of the fact that you probably knew this, you skewed the facts to shed a negative light on the Pope.)
    Defending a holocaust denier is the same as being one in my book. I don't go in for long-winded explication.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    I gave you the benefit of the doubt as having a dubious sense of humour. I was going to ask what you meant but then couldn't be bothered. The number of accumulated incidents however, means that benefit expired with that last post. Don't presume to know my intentions for starting threads. You know nothing about me.
    I don't know your intentions, but I can certainly speculate. The fact that you haven't attempted to contradict what I said about your intentions puts you in the precarious position of being private about them. Privacy begs the question, "What is that person hiding?"


    Defending a holocaust denier is the same as being one in my book. I don't go in for long-winded explication.
    By that logic, those who defend the first amendment of the Constitution are holocaust deniers.

  4. #114
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I don't know your intentions, but I can certainly speculate. The fact that you haven't attempted to contradict what I said about your intentions puts you in the precarious position of being private about them. Privacy begs the question, "What is that person hiding?"
    I don't care about your paranoia either.
    By that logic, those who defend the first amendment of the Constitution are holocaust deniers.
    Whatever. I'm not interested in debating it with you. I think the Pope is morally reprehensible for defending a holocaust denier. You don't.
    End of story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  5. #115
    Sniffles
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    Holocaust Denial is largely irrelevant to what the whole issue was really about, namely lifting the excommunication of SSPX bishops and healing the rift between them and the Papacy.

  6. #116
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Holocaust Denial is largely irrelevant to what the whole issue was really about, namely lifting the excommunication of SSPX bishops and healing the rift between them and the Papacy.
    Didn't the Pope later admit regret that the decision created such a squabble between liberal and conservative Catholics?

  7. #117
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Didn't the Pope later admit regret that the decision created such a squabble between liberal and conservative Catholics?
    He might of. I know his main focus in this whole thing was to help bring the Church together and heal some of the rifts of the past.

    In any case:
    Vatican Demands Holocaust-Denying Bishop Renounce Views - ABC News
    BBC NEWS | Middle East | Pope condemns denial of Holocaust
    Pope Benedict XVI calls Holocaust denial 'intolerable' - Telegraph
    Vatican: Holocaust Denier Must Recant - CBS News

    So Morgan is just beating a non-existant dead horse. The Pope is not a Holocaust denier nor defends such views. As a German who actually lived through that era, it's rather absurd to argue he does.

  8. #118
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    ^I'd be grateful if you could make an effort to communicate respectfully in my threads. You're really becoming obnoxious and you seem to constantly be trying to incite people. Please change your tone or don't bother to contribute.
    ^I'd be grateful if you could make an effort to communicate respectfully. You're really becoming obnoxious and you seem to constantly be trying to incite people.

    Of course, that's just an observation and you can take it or leave it as you like.

  9. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Apparently some people missed "Diplomacy 101". Issues of the significance of the state in world affairs or whether the majority of people like this head of state are largely irrelevant. A visiting head of state is guranteed courtesy and protection, and ragashee previously offered good reasons why that should be so. Failure to do so on a nation's part can damage its image around the world.

    Most Americans didn't like Nikita Khrushchev, yet tax dollars were provided so the Secret Service could provide him protection. A funny story about that concerns the inability for them to provide adequate security as a major reason why Khrushchev didn't get to visit Disneyland for example. Walt Disney was a staunch anti-Communist, nevertheless even he was disappointed in not being able to show off his amusement park to a world leader.
    Yeah, this is exactly what I thought and meant when I was saying that the reception the Pope receives will be seen to say more about the country he is visiting than about him himself.

    There has been loads of coverage of child abuse stories and broadly negative comment, some which actually features citizens of the republic of Ireland complaining about the Pope omitting to visit Ireland rather than commenting on the visit to UK, in the run up to this.

    Its one of the few times when I've seriously suspected the media of out and out opinion forming, the media in the UK being less blatant than the US in that respect or feeling less inclination to have to conform to the opinions of is viewers in order to attract viewers in the first place.

    They where complaining that something like fourteen sex offenders remained registered priests in the UK (I think there's more than fourteen registered and community sentenced or supervised sex offenders in my home town who arent priests) the commentator suggested that the Church could not have laity, including victims, supporting sex offender priests on their tab without there being an element of betrayal involved.

    The Church official responded by saying that in most instances this afforded the church an element of control and oversight of the offenders which otherwise they wouldnt have and their priority was preventing discovered abuse from reoccuring. They also indicated that they where working with the authorities who where kept up to date of their status of the individuals and who where not permitted to minister as priests in the community or schools.

    To be honest I think that this offending behaviour is much more widespread and a general problem than it is an RCC problem.

  10. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    He might of. I know his main focus in this whole thing was to help bring the Church together and heal some of the rifts of the past.

    In any case:
    Vatican Demands Holocaust-Denying Bishop Renounce Views - ABC News
    BBC NEWS | Middle East | Pope condemns denial of Holocaust
    Pope Benedict XVI calls Holocaust denial 'intolerable' - Telegraph
    Vatican: Holocaust Denier Must Recant - CBS News

    So Morgan is just beating a non-existant dead horse. The Pope is not a Holocaust denier nor defends such views. As a German who actually lived through that era, it's rather absurd to argue he does.
    Although there are a lot of people who would argue he does for precisely that reason Peguy, ie he's a German who actually lived through that era, its unfortunate but its true. The notions of collective guilt which are popular in the middle east have seeped out into the west in that respect for sure.

    I can remember growing up that the Germans, Japanese and pretty much continential Europe where considered suspect, there where books published and pundits flapping about the reunification of Germany and suggesting it should, couldnt, wouldnt need to ever happen, in the end it was only considered favourable in the UK because of hopes absorbing the east would wreck the economy of the west of Germany and render them less of threat.

    Its only since Bush's Germany should remilitarise and man up to fight in global hot spots like the UK comments that opinion has really changed, Blair has wanted the EU to reconstitute itself as an anciliary pax alliance to the US. Although with the aged population of pensioners in the UK there is a large segment of the public who are still living in the war and post-war era.

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