User Tag List

First 4567 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 62

  1. #51
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    And?
    And gun nuts desire the FN P90 and probably the associated FN Five-Seven pistol plus if criminals can shoot through cover then that gives them a tactical advantage which then promotes the other sides involved (like the police and civilians) to do likewise to even the odds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You lost me.
    Britain, that place where even if you do own a gun (aside from sporting shotguns which makes no sense but I never made the rules) it has to be kept at a registered club in regularly inspected secure storage and isn't allowed outside of that club.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't think most gun nuts are using AKs for home defense. I don't know that much about guns, but even I know a pump action shotgun is superior to an AK for interior home defense. I'm sure most gun nuts know this as well. Most are actually pretty well educated on the subject, far more educated than the average American or British citizen.
    Never understood that one. A shotgun will spread it's ammo out which corrects inaccuracy but also increases the chance of collateral damage like managing to catch an innocent in the blast. It's like setting claymores on your front door, effective but risky.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I think you're trying to make this out to be a bigger issue than it really is. The man in the story fired into the ground and he didn't try to use it to defend the interior of his home.
    No I'm just getting side tracked by the whole "you can't say that an AK is an inappropriate weapon, that's stoopid" argument.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #52
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    And gun nuts desire the FN P90 and probably the associated FN Five-Seven pistol plus if criminals can shoot through cover then that gives them a tactical advantage which then promotes the other sides involved (like the police and civilians) to do likewise to even the odds.
    If gun nuts are worried about something like this, they're worried about the military and police, not criminals. There's a pretty well-known saying, "A well-armed populace is the best defense against tyranny."

    Britain, that place where even if you do own a gun (aside from sporting shotguns which makes no sense but I never made the rules) it has to be kept at a registered club in regularly inspected secure storage and isn't allowed outside of that club.
    Good for Britain.

    Never understood that one. A shotgun will spread it's ammo out which corrects inaccuracy but also increases the chance of collateral damage like managing to catch an innocent in the blast. It's like setting claymores on your front door, effective but risky.
    Most people aren't expert shots, especially when it's dark. And shot is less likely to penetrate walls (unless your walls are literally paper thin) than a bullet. Also, the sound of a pump action shotgun is pretty well known (thanks to movies). That sound, alone, could cause an intruder to flee.

    No I'm just getting side tracked by the whole "you can't say that an AK is an inappropriate weapon, that's stoopid" argument.
    That's not been my argument at all. I just don't believe gun nuts are responsible for any sort of arms race. If there is an arms race, gun nuts are simply beneficiaries.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #53
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If gun nuts are worried about something like this, they're worried about the military and police, not criminals. There's a pretty well-known saying, "A well-armed populace is the best defense against tyranny."
    Yup and that's equally ludicrous. You don't get ICBMs or tanks etc etc. A firearm won't penetrate modern vehicle armour unless you've got the anti material stuff and automatic weapons are banned meaning you're at a severe disadvantage there too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Good for Britain.
    Thanks it's fantastic here... no really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Most people aren't expert shots, especially when it's dark. And shot is less likely to penetrate walls (unless your walls are literally paper thin) than a bullet. Also, the sound of a pump action shotgun is pretty well known (thanks to movies). That sound, alone, could cause an intruder to flee.
    Or arm themselves likewise producing an arms race. Plus most shotguns are too large to manoeuvre quickly which is why experts use shorter weapons indoors. Long arms aren't the best choice for urban warfare and I think I'd be right in saying that the bullpup shotguns are banned and whippet shotguns are even more likely to scatter shot all over the place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That's not been my argument at all. I just don't believe gun nuts are responsible for any sort of arms race. If there is an arms race, gun nuts are simply beneficiaries.
    So those that purchase the latest firearms aren't responsible for the creation of the next big thing? So gamers aren't responsible for the £900+ monstrosities which are now available? No not directly.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #54
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Yup and that's equally ludicrous. You don't get ICBMs or tanks etc etc. A firearm won't penetrate modern vehicle armour unless you've got the anti material stuff and automatic weapons are banned meaning you're at a severe disadvantage there too.
    Yeah, look at how the US military is just rolling through Afghanistan.

    Or arm themselves likewise producing an arms race. Plus most shotguns are too large to manoeuvre quickly which is why experts use shorter weapons indoors. Long arms aren't the best choice for urban warfare and I think I'd be right in saying that the bullpup shotguns are banned and whippet shotguns are even more likely to scatter shot all over the place.
    I don't even know what you're trying to argue here. My point wasn't that shotguns are the best possible choice for all situations (there are pros and cons to both handguns and shotguns and it's a heavily debated topic). My point is that shotguns are a better choice than an AK and most gun nuts probably know this. You seem to have this notion that all gun nuts are idiots that spend ridiculous amounts of money on the most advanced weaponry they can find, then seek out an opportunity to use their weapons.

    So those that purchase the latest firearms aren't responsible for the creation of the next big thing? So gamers aren't responsible for the £900+ monstrosities which are now available? No not directly.
    The government and organized crime are the drivers of demand of assault weapons, not gun nuts.

    Gamers? Like WoW players?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #55
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Yeah, look at how the US military is just rolling through Afghanistan.
    Errm that's a trained paramilitary force not some 25 stone dolt who thinks that ice cream is made by getting a cow really cold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't even know what you're trying to argue here. My point wasn't that shotguns are the best possible choice for all situations (there are pros and cons to both handguns and shotguns and it's a heavily debated topic). My point is that shotguns are a better choice than an AK and most gun nuts probably know this. You seem to have this notion that all gun nuts are idiots that spend ridiculous amounts of money on the most advanced weaponry they can find, then seek out an opportunity to use their weapons.
    Depends on what you mean by gun nut. Nut is usually used in the derogatory sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The government and organized crime are the drivers of demand of assault weapons, not gun nuts.
    What's an assault weapon then? You keep throwing out judgements but you're as bad as I am at backing them up and yet you consistently call me on it. Play fair or it's just not cricket.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Gamers? Like WoW players?
    No. Gamers. People who play WoW a lot aren't really gamers just people who are too bored to do anything else. I'm refering to the hard core the FPSers who want 120fps on 30" screens with 16xFSAA and all the sauce. Try the forums at XtremeSystems.org for a sampler. They modify graphics cards with a soldering iron and from what I can tell mostly for benchmarks only.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #56
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Errm that's a trained paramilitary force not some 25 stone dolt who thinks that ice cream is made by getting a cow really cold.
    Sure, some of them are trained, but not all. But I think you underestimate gun nuts. Many of them are ex-military or ex-law enforcement.

    I don't think you have a good understanding of gun culture in the US. I'm not claiming to be an expert because my exposure has been limited, but it's not just about a bunch of rednecks buying some fancy weapons and causing a ruckus.

    Depends on what you mean by gun nut. Nut is usually used in the derogatory sense.
    What about fanatic, like a sports fanatic?

    What's an assault weapon then? You keep throwing out judgements but you're as bad as I am at backing them up and yet you consistently call me on it. Play fair or it's just not cricket.
    The US has defined assault weapons pretty specifically.

    Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    No. Gamers. People who play WoW a lot aren't really gamers just people who are too bored to do anything else. I'm refering to the hard core the FPSers who want 120fps on 30" screens with 16xFSAA and all the sauce. Try the forums at XtremeSystems.org for a sampler. They modify graphics cards with a soldering iron and from what I can tell mostly for benchmarks only.
    Okay, what does this have to with the topic?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #57
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Sure, some of them are trained, but not all. But I think you underestimate gun nuts. Many of them are ex-military or ex-law enforcement.
    Right back at ya. Sure, some of them are trained.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't think you have a good understanding of gun culture in the US. I'm not claiming to be an expert because it's something I only have a little exposure to, but it's not just about a bunch of rednecks buying some fancy weapons and causing a ruckus.
    You're right. The idea of such people sets my head at an angle like a dog trying to figure out if that thing moving over there is food or friend. I am however judging from those who speak up about it. I totally expect that they are outliers but I'd also predict that those so called normal ones are a whole lot less bothered and well trained.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    What about fanatic, like a sports fanatic?
    Fanatic - Doing something regardless of consequence. A bit dumb in my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The US has defined assault weapons pretty specifically.
    Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    That's nice.

    So how about you or are you this "US" of which you speak?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Okay, what does this have to with the topic?
    Enthusiasts drive the top end of consumer markets. Enthusiasts are like one step removed from nuts though cause usually they're competent too.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #58
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    They'd get a whole lot further just limiting the ammo types and then limiting the remaining firearms by feature or function.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #59
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Right back at ya. Sure, some of them are trained.
    So we're agreed, an armed US populace wouldn't be much different than the insurgency in Afghanistan in a conflict with the US military.

    You're right. The idea of such people sets my head at an angle like a dog trying to figure out if that thing moving over there is food or friend. I am however judging from those who speak up about it. I totally expect that they are outliers but I'd also predict that those so called normal ones are a whole lot less bothered and well trained.

    Fanatic - Doing something regardless of consequence. A bit dumb in my opinion.
    Calling someone a fan or a nut isn't necessarily a pejorative in the US. I think you're taking the term too literally. You use the term enthusiast below, that's probably a more accurate term for your purposes.

    That's nice.

    So how about you or are you this "US" of which you speak?
    When I use a specific term like "assault weapon", I'm referring to the legal definition.

    Enthusiasts drive the top end of consumer markets. Enthusiasts are like one step removed from nuts though cause usually they're competent too.
    I just don't believe assault weapon enthusiasts are a major force in the market compared to organized crime and the government. If you have data that proves my belief wrong, I'd love to see it.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #60
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9w8
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    4,463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So we're agreed, an armed US populace wouldn't be much different than the insurgency in Afghanistan in a conflict with the US military.
    No. The US population would be more like a bunch of people who didn't agree, could be bothered and who had an axe to grind... with some guns.

    Underestimate the Afghanistan's resistance to outside interference if you will. It did the Russians a whole world of good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Calling someone a fan or a nut isn't necessarily a pejorative in the US. I think you're taking the term too literally. You use the term enthusiast below, that's probably a more accurate term for your purposes.
    So what do you call a guy with an AK stashed in his house for "home defence" aside from Sir?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    When I use a specific term like "assault weapon", I'm referring to the legal definition.
    In the states. Ta that's helpful.
    I was thinking more in terms of weapons used for assault manoeuvres but whatever, we continue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I just don't believe assault weapon enthusiasts are a major force in the market compared to organized crime and the government. If you have data that proves my belief wrong, I'd love to see it.
    Errm I was talking about weapon design in total not just assault weaponry which really is only needed in attacking a home not defending one, which is where they're making the tactical errors but that's another thread.

    So let me get this straight, this long conversation came about because you disagreed that gun development is done on the input of enthusiasts?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

Similar Threads

  1. Man gets fired for outsourcing his own job to china
    By UniqueMixture in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 02-07-2013, 12:28 AM
  2. Man claims aliens targeted his home with meteorites
    By Sniffles in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-21-2010, 01:58 AM
  3. USA: Woman, 61, arrested for asking why'
    By heart in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 03-04-2010, 12:32 AM
  4. Long Island Ice Teas
    By stellar renegade in forum Home, Garden and Nature
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-18-2009, 08:03 PM
  5. Mis-Understood INFJ looking for a new home
    By Pseudonym_Alpha in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 04-30-2009, 09:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO