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View Poll Results: Should sex offenders be treated humanely (in prison)?

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  • Yes.

    50 73.53%
  • No.

    13 19.12%
  • Unsure.

    5 7.35%
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  1. #161
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I don't think cutting off the hands of thieves would be much of a deterrent. I think it would raise the stakes, making thieves more violent.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #162
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    If you drive recklessly they take your driving licence away. It benefits the entire system by reducing the risk factor on the roads.
    If you can't control your loins and lessens other people's freedom (rape etc.) you should be castrated/whatever they do to women. Reducing the risk factor for potential victims, instead of putting it on queue (prison etc.)

    I think the thread fails to understand the gap between what humans actually do and what they call 'human'.
    Attitude vs behavior. Fundamental mistake.

    Human treatment is a behavior.
    Behavioraly speaking, from a statistical perspective. Goodness, generosity and so on are highly correlated with potential return for individuals (the poor give more) and genepools (adoption, cooperation with other groups=more genetic diversity=faster adaptation to new conditions).
    Just as a high risk venture would be most likely to benefit from the added costs of an insurance policy, generosity is correlated with the likelihood of requiring it (past, present- through positive reinforcement- and future).
    Now of course, it's all intermingled with genetics and such; but evolution functions purely on a 'return on investment' basis, so actions not prolific to the proliferation of the gene pool are bound to get a lesser and lesser part of the total ressources available.

    Rape exists because it's a strategy that works well enough not to be weeded out when taken holistically (the behavior and its corrolaries: male aggression and 'war rapes' being favorable in acquiring ressources and spreading a tribe's/individual's genepool etc.).

    Yet, in today's complex cultural environments legal tools/institutions offer an adapted protection to individuals in light of the drastic rise in degrees of freedom (goods aquisition, transportation, communication etc.), and hence increase of the absolute chances for danger.
    They act as an indispensible counteractant to the aforementioned danger levels in the same way you'd need a sturdier canon to withstand the pressure of added powder.

    How to get rid of the additional risk factor of sex offenders without losing individuals who, in other aspects might be active parts of the economy and therefore general welfare?
    By eliminating the risk factor (sex drive) without eliminating the individual.

    That's, human. The rest is inefficient and cowardly. Society as a whole, through its legal system takes responsability for such actions, and therefore no one individual is personally 'guilty' of castration. Not doing it because of empathy is mistaking the 'level' at which the action happens. Cowardice or not, it's not an individual action but a societal one.
    Societal action, resulting in societal added value.

    ps: Now one might argue that's what dictators or groups such as the nazi do by imposing the state on the individual.
    IT ISN'T. Dictators/Nazi are the exact opposite. Using PERSONAL desires and inspirations and sublimating them into NATIONAL drives and inspirations through leadership, promesses of national power etc. It's a result of personal/groupal acquisition and misuse of power.
    This misuse, while it could possibly lead to general welfare isn't driven by it and generally don't.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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  3. #163
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I never realized threads had their own consciousness.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #164
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I never realized threads had their own consciousness.
    The data was incorrect, I pointed it out.
    You can't answer a question if the original parameters aren't defined properly.

    I haven't read any other msg by that poster. I therefore had no data pattern at my disposal to input it to a character trait/usual behavior of the poster rather than to the common usage of the term or even purely as a communication strategy of the original poster. (to attract all them NFs/ because it's more concise etc.)
    Possibly a mix of the above
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  5. #165
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Are sex offenders lobotomized or castrated in any European countries?
    Not anywhere in the world. It's a man's world.

    Stealing, drunk driving and pot smoking is nowhere near rape. Rape destroys a woman's psyche, her person, her spirit, her personality, her freedom, her confidence, etc. To me, that's right below murder. I agree that it happens so often in society and the justice system doesn't seem to care enough to drastically reduce the numbers aside from 'educational classes'.

    Castration won't solve the problem as mentioned before. The violent person will just find other methods and will, I think, be fueled by the 'injustice' done to him. He will resort to other aggressive methods, probably murder. Also, taking away his ability to even remotely have a 'normal' life will isolate him further from society's expectations and rules. He can't marry, can't have kids, can't even have a girlfriend. A 'normal' life is important to 'change' a criminal. So, castration will just create a more aggressive, uncaring outcast with no hope of a life.

    If we have to find a solution other than throwing them in jail for a few years/decades and paying their meals, execution is the only other possible method to deter future rapes.

    It's not illogical. It's very logical, too logical. It's just a few notches less humane than modern society (hope to be). I see rape as right below murder; the damage is done and it is permanent. It's not pot smoking or drunk driving or lip stick stealing. Money can be earned back, cars and roads can be fixed, but a human life and a human's mind cannot be so easily returned and restored. That's why to me, the punishment of execution is a great big step to take. But is there value in a rapist's life? Do we care to preserve such? Hmmm.

  6. #166
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Brain View Post
    Retribution in the exact manner of the crime is childish, overly simplistic, and an awful way of punishing those who commit crimes. Aside from the barbaric act of castration against a man who committed a sexual offense (and aside from the various other ways he would use to harm other even without genetalia) what about those who smoke pot or drive drunk? How would we go about punishing them? And . . . really, cutting off a person's hand for stealing just to increase the deterrent rate? Are you fucking kidding me, do you know how illogical that sounds?
    How is it illogical? The purpose of punishment is deterrence. Mutilation is a deterrent. Thus, it is perfectly logical that mutilation be used as punishment for a crime.
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  7. #167
    XES 5231311252's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    If you drive recklessly they take your driving licence away. It benefits the entire system by reducing the risk factor on the roads.
    If you can't control your loins and lessens other people's freedom (rape etc.) you should be castrated/whatever they do to women. Reducing the risk factor for potential victims, instead of putting it on queue (prison etc.)
    I was all for castration at one point, until I realized the effects of such an act and how they'd most likely only make things even worse than before. Sex offenders will not only find even more creative ways to assault others, they may raise the stakes and kill them, just to avoid having their dicks cut off. There have been hundreds of sexual assaults committed by impotent sex offenders. So castration might stop their sexual drive, but it isn't guaranteed to stop them from committing another assault. Not only that, what shall be done about female sex offenders? I've yet to see anyone comment on them, as if only male sex offenders exist and only male sex offenders are assaulted in prison. So what, will you castrate female sex offenders as well?

    Btw, are you agreeing with the current treatment of most sex offenders in prison?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Not anywhere in the world. It's a man's world.
    Yes there are and I even provided links. Even South Korea's parliament voted for a new chemical castration law and if the president signs it, it'll be the first Asian country with such a law.

    It's not illogical. It's very logical, too logical. It's just a few notches less humane than modern society (hope to be). I see rape as right below murder; the damage is done and it is permanent. It's not pot smoking or drunk driving or lip stick stealing. Money can be earned back, cars and roads can be fixed, but a human life and a human's mind cannot be so easily returned and restored.
    I really don't see why death is considered less humane, when it ends the misery of the prisoner and society's misery as a result of the prisoner. Especially when it's compared to torture.

  8. #168
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    How is it illogical? The purpose of punishment is deterrence. Mutilation is a deterrent. Thus, it is perfectly logical that mutilation be used as punishment for a crime.
    It's also a deterrent to flay their children alive and feed them screaming to wild dogs while the perp is forced to watch. It's a deterrent to subject the perp's entire family to violent anal gang-rape prior to feeding them all feet-first into tree chippers. Maybe we should add those items to the penal code too...?

    Simple deterrence is not the only operative principle.

  9. #169
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5231311252 View Post
    Btw, are you agreeing with the current treatment of most sex offenders in prison?
    I dont think individuals should do what only a legal system should. Individuals can defend themselves. Assault is no better than any other crime.
    The question is, why isn't it adressed and is there an unsaid "additional punishment" judges, at some level, count on.
    Then it would be an equivalent of what inmates do to sex offenders and denote of a mishandling/abuse of the law(societal force) by individuals.
    The actual punishment delivered , to be what its suppposed to be should only include what is specified at the judgement. To come as close as possible from a 1:1 ratio. Like a chinese box where one can "talk chinese" without understanding it, simply by aplying the algorithms governing the input/output translation.

    Now that needs advances in sciences and cross disciplinary research as to define the rules without giving individuals such leeway
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  10. #170
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    It's also a deterrent to flay their children alive and feed them screaming to wild dogs while the perp is forced to watch. It's a deterrent to subject the perp's entire family to violent anal gang-rape prior to feeding them all feet-first into tree chippers. Maybe we should add those items to the penal code too...?
    That's a great idea!
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