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View Poll Results: Should sex offenders be treated humanely (in prison)?

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  • Yes.

    50 73.53%
  • No.

    13 19.12%
  • Unsure.

    5 7.35%
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Results 151 to 160 of 196

  1. #151
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    Yeah well Burgess wasnt talking about pedophiles who rape children. He was talking about youths who grow out of violence as they age. Which is why Alex the protagonist rejects violence and rape in the 21st chapter numerologically speaking 21 being the age of maturity.
    But Burgess never advocated Alex's final fate, which was that he was left with such an aversion to violence that he was helpless to defend himself from a violent society. His life had become a horror. What's done to Alex is a horrible thing, which is why A Clockwork Orange is such a disturbing tale.

    The rest of your post I will ignore.

  2. #152
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    But Burgess never advocated Alex's final fate, which was that he was left with such an aversion to violence that he was helpless to defend himself from a violent society. His life had become a horror. What's done to Alex is a horrible thing, which is why A Clockwork Orange is such a disturbing tale.

    The rest of your post I will ignore.
    That is a great book, I used to think about that when I saw junkies who'd got clean fall in with their old crowd and start getting high again, doesnt matter if you change and the world around you stays the same.

  3. #153
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    This is a use of the term "deserves" that I've never seen before. I think you've got some discord between what you think and what you feel.

    If abuse is what the criminal truly deserves, then there's no reason why society should withhold it from him. On the other hand, if society really should be better than that, then it is truly right and just that the criminal be spared. The two premises are incompatable, they cannot be simultaneously true.
    It's almost like you are trying to make logical sense of illogical emotions lol.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  4. #154
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    But Burgess never advocated Alex's final fate, which was that he was left with such an aversion to violence that he was helpless to defend himself from a violent society. His life had become a horror. What's done to Alex is a horrible thing, which is why A Clockwork Orange is such a disturbing tale.

    The rest of your post I will ignore.
    Alex's final fate was to be deprogrammed and to grow out of the violence he once embraced in his youth. Again, different then someone who has a preference for abusing children. Also, Alex was given the choice of finishing his 14 year sentence or taking the cure.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  5. #155
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    It's almost like you are trying to make logical sense of illogical emotions lol.
    Almost. What's really happening is that I'm trying to urge you to set your illogical emotions aside and think logically.

  6. #156
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Almost. What's really happening is that I'm trying to urge you to set your illogical emotions aside and think logically.
    Err, thats sort of what I do... dis-regard my emotions in favor of whats logically better for the whole, at least when it comes to stuff like voting etc for capital punishment etc. I only really let my emotions guide the way in personal matters. Ya know sort of like I said earlier in not so many words. What you're REALLY tying to do is instigate an argument out of nothing, because you're a butthole. Good day butthole.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  7. #157
    Oberon
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    It's just as well... I've been called worse.

    Honestly, though, I'm really not trying to start an argument. I just don't see it the way you see it, and I think your reasoning is flawed in the way I've already pointed out.

    I'm sorry I made you angry.

  8. #158
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage Brain View Post
    Castration? Lobotomy? Really? I though an advanced civilzation like ours was beyond draconic punishments like these. People some words of advice; don't let your personal hatred and predjudice against criminals cloud your judgment on how to effectively deal with them; regardless of how one feels we must as a society construct a fair system of inprisonment and punishment, one where all are punished in an manner according to their crimes committed.
    Killing killers, etc. is a rather appropriately balanced method of punishment. If I were to cut off a thief's hand for stealing I'd be doling out disproportionate punishment, but then again that's a rather powerful deterrent, so it might logically be a good idea.
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  9. #159
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    Originally posted by Aleksei
    Killing killers, etc. is a rather appropriately balanced method of punishment. If I were to cut off a thief's hand for stealing I'd be doling out disproportionate punishment, but then again that's a rather powerful deterrent, so it might logically be a good idea.
    Retribution in the exact manner of the crime is childish, overly simplistic, and an awful way of punishing those who commit crimes. Aside from the barbaric act of castration against a man who committed a sexual offense (and aside from the various other ways he would use to harm other even without genetalia) what about those who smoke pot or drive drunk? How would we go about punishing them? And . . . really, cutting off a person's hand for stealing just to increase the deterrent rate? Are you fucking kidding me, do you know how illogical that sounds?

  10. #160
    Senior Member Gerbah's Avatar
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    I think it depends on how you see the context of the crime of stealing. I personally don't see it as so illogical. For example, let's say someone is caught stealing red-handed, and one finger is cut off. The advantages are 1: it is a huge deterrent, 2: everyone will see s/he doesn't have a finger and will know it was for stealing, he won't be trusted with property, 3: s/he's still got all his other fingers so s/he isn't physically extremely disabled, 4: 1 and 2 together are, in my opinion, more effective deterrents and punishment than prison, plus the community doesn't have to pay for the thief's maintenance in prison. If s/he steals again, then cut off one more finger. If they lose all 10, they won't anyway be able to steal anything anymore. In the case of petty thieving anyway. But there is also white collar thievery, mafia, etc. The social consequences echo very widely in such cases of "stealing".

    I remember when I was in Russia and a Russian there was telling me about how systemic the corruption is, how it's almost impossible to control, how ordinary people suffer from it, and that in such a society he thinks having their hands cut off would be the best way to clean it up.

    When you look at the plundering of the economy by big bankers, for example, I bet if they all knew they'd get a finger cut off per offence and the social stigma that would follow, they'd think twice. But such a punishment would only be put into place in a society where people (and their personal property rights, freedom and safety) are valued very, very highly.
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