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View Poll Results: Should sex offenders be treated humanely (in prison)?

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  • Yes.

    50 73.53%
  • No.

    13 19.12%
  • Unsure.

    5 7.35%
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  1. #101
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    You've conflated a number of, in my opinion, quite different points, I've picked out precisely what I want to respond to. I dont believe that I've misread you, I've tried to get you to think about what you're typing here, its nothing personal but its an error that I see you persisting in with this second post in the same vein.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Your question just seemed really pointless- "Is this guy telling the truth about being tortured in prison?" is a dumb question when it's completely obvious from his current condition that he was tortured in prison. He's comatose. He can't fake that.
    I dont see how its dumb.

    From his present state, ie being comatose, you infer that he is an honest man and his previous reports are accurate and to be trusted, am I correct?

    OK, I tell you I am soaking wet, does that mean I've been swimming in the ocean? Well, it could as easily mean I've been in the shower, the point is that you dont have the information from the objective fact of being soaking wet to infer anything more with accuracy.

    What you're reading as sympathy is actually objectivity.
    I understand that this is what you believe. I dont agree.

    I don't think anyone deserves to be tortured or raped, even those who have tortured or raped someone themselves. Of course what he did was abhorrent. Sexual abuse should not be dealt with lightly. His prison sentence was the proper consequence- if it wasn't long enough, then we should be working towards stronger consequences under the law. The prison guards who allowed, encouraged, and even perpetrated further inhumane treatment took it upon themselves to punish him outside the law. That shouldn't be dealt with lightly, either.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that this is your point of depature for the posts you've made in this thread, you began with this and reasoned backward, your feeling that abuses are terrible and should not be perpetrated have lead to you reaching conclusions about what has actually happened here without I believe the complete evidence.

    I'm much more inclined to reserve judgement. Given what I know to be an objective fact about the character of the guy presently in a coma.

  2. #102
    XES 5231311252's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Am I the only person who doesnt find it surprising that prison is not a place to go to have a good time.
    Who is so dense as to think anyone in this thread thinks of prison as or wants prison to be a place to have a good time?

  3. #103
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    Everyone deserves to be treated humanely, after all, how can you expect a person to rehabilitate\behave humanely if they themselves never received such treatment. I am in two minds about this, my idealistic side believes that everyone irrespective of who they are and what they've done should be treated humanely, but, experience and reason tell me that when a person impedes upon the freedom and dignity of another, the only way to deal with such a person is to treat them the same way or even harsher, though in the end it may be to no avail.

    some people are just born really fucked up and they are irreparable, they get their kicks from playing power games, walking over others and degrading people...never having the capacity for self awareness.

  4. #104
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Detention International
    When the government takes away someone’s freedom, it has a responsibility to protect that person’s safety. All inmates have the right be treated with dignity. No matter what crime someone has committed, sexual violence must never be part of the penalty....sexual abuse in detention is a perversion of justice and an affront to our society’s essential values.
    This is pretty much my position. There is a difference between being just(tough) and being outright brutal to criminals.

  5. #105
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5231311252 View Post
    Who is so dense as to think anyone in this thread thinks of prison as or wants prison to be a place to have a good time?
    Are you calling me dense?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    This is pretty much my position. There is a difference between being just(tough) and being outright brutal to criminals.
    I'm inclined to believe this too but can you guarantee that?

    Its not the same thread but I posted a while back about the UK inmate, a double child murderer who had a string of sex offences against young girls prior to this offence, a complete sociopath, who is presenting taking legal action against the authorities to the tune of thousands and thousands, in that instance the state prevented his suicide, nursed him back to health, did their best to protect him and he still wound up injured in an assault by another prisoner.

    I think people generally have expectations of the state which are unrealistic and unfeasible, these are eventually going to drive the state broke, if only because of the law suits I can see on the back of it.

    Personally I think its unfeasible to promise criminals that they're effectively going to be cared for and protected from wrath or harm from any quarter after they are apprehended. After all no one has been able to prevent them when they where exacting wrath or harm themselves on others.

    The whole thing could seriously make the law and ass, when that happens often enough and gravely enough some mental/insane sort of authority gets put in the place of the one that's seen to have failed.

  7. #107
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    You've conflated a number of, in my opinion, quite different points, I've picked out precisely what I want to respond to. I dont believe that I've misread you, I've tried to get you to think about what you're typing here, its nothing personal but its an error that I see you persisting in with this second post in the same vein.



    I dont see how its dumb.

    From his present state, ie being comatose, you infer that he is an honest man and his previous reports are accurate and to be trusted, am I correct?
    It's hard to imagine you being more wrong. That is a crazy leap that I never said nor suggested. What I suggested is that his level of honesty (he's a kiddie porn peddler so I'm thinking he doesn't have much of it, in fact "lowlife" is the term that comes to mind) is completely irrelevant in light of the evidence (that he was beaten severely enough to be comatose) and other witnesses (including the prison chaplain!) who back up what he said was happening to him. And the final assualt is not in question at all. He was brutally beaten.

    Quote Originally Posted by RTFA
    The 29-year-old former Connecticut man was heading back to his cell block from a recreation area when he was ambushed by an inmate with a history of violence who was supposed to be locked down — but wasn't. The inmate knocked him to the floor and stomped on his head at least 15 times "with all his might," according to a police report. Pinto's face was shattered, and he suffered brain injuries that left him comatose.
    After the attack, his assailant had enough time to return to his cell and use a rag to wipe evidence from his black sneakers, police said.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm inclined to believe this too but can you guarantee that?

    Its not the same thread but I posted a while back about the UK inmate, a double child murderer who had a string of sex offences against young girls prior to this offence, a complete sociopath, who is presenting taking legal action against the authorities to the tune of thousands and thousands, in that instance the state prevented his suicide, nursed him back to health, did their best to protect him and he still wound up injured in an assault by another prisoner.

    I think people generally have expectations of the state which are unrealistic and unfeasible, these are eventually going to drive the state broke, if only because of the law suits I can see on the back of it.

    Personally I think its unfeasible to promise criminals that they're effectively going to be cared for and protected from wrath or harm from any quarter after they are apprehended. After all no one has been able to prevent them when they where exacting wrath or harm themselves on others.

    The whole thing could seriously make the law and ass, when that happens often enough and gravely enough some mental/insane sort of authority gets put in the place of the one that's seen to have failed.
    I don't think I'm placing unrealistic expectations on the state, namely for it to do its job of maintaining order, either in society as a whole or within its own institutions. Maintaining order in prisons is absolutely key not just for the inmates' sakes, but also for the guards too.

    Allowing prisoners to freely assault, rape, kill each other is not exactly a positive in the long run. One example I can give were the "Bitch Wars" in Stalinist gulags, when inmates were not only allowed but even encouraged to assault and kill each other. The mentality was this helped thin out the prison population, and of course who cares anyways about criminals. Those who survived it turned out were more viciously brutal than before, not to mention more politically savy too(they learned the fine art of playing factions against one another and also how to court the favor of guards). These men later became the foundation for the Russian mafia as we know it, which plagued Russia and much of the world after Communism fell.

    An extreme case certainly, but it helps to show what happens when you dont try to reasonably minimalise the brutality found in prisons. You can't expect to keep all these guys locked up forever and many will have to be released back to society.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    You can't expect to keep all these guys locked up forever and many will have to be released back to society.
    I forgot to mention that a major reason for this is because of the huge financial burden that housing large numbers of prisoners places upon the state and taxpayers.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    What separates civil and productive members of society from violent criminals that need to be locked up is the fact that we don't murder, torture, and rape people.
    When we encourage and facilitate the murder, torture, and rape of people, we destroy our innocence and bring ourselves closer to the people we're supposed to be condemning.

    Yeah, I suppose "they deserved it" though, right?
    Pff.
    Justice and spite don't mix well.

    I find it amusingly hypocritical when the people who claim to be on the compassionate side are the ones cheering on violence.
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