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  1. #31
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words of Ivory View Post
    I'm entirely aware of what I do and don't know, but until something smarter comes around to show me some convincing evidence that this is more than a derivative work of fiction, I have no reason to believe otherwise. And nebbykoo's post just added more weight to my opinion of that being the case.

    Please show me your evidence to the contrary.
    Why, I never claimed to have any. I have made no assertions in this thread about the truth or falsity of the flood myth. I have noted that the story is repeated across cultures and may therefore be the result of a real event in our distant past; but that's a far cry from your bald assertions.

    I think I'm done here. You win, if you like.

  2. #32
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    ftr I don't think it would make much sense that if there was an ark that we would ever find it. Since the flood destroyed the land Noah's family would have likely salvaged the ark for building materials.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  3. #33
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Has anyone been following the story of the purported Noah's Ark find on Mt. Ararat by the Chinese/Turks?

    I'm sure there are better and maybe more legitimate websites documenting the story, but this was near the top of results that google spit out, and it basically covers it. Apparently these Chinese explorers won't reveal the location, and are waiting on permits to make the site an official archeological zone before more details about the location are released.

    Jehovah's Witness News: NOAH’S ARK DICOVERED | BREAKING NEWS

    *edit: maybe this should have gone in "Politics, History and Current Events"... Mods, can you move thread if you see this?
    The rivers of Euphrat and Tigris did flood from time to time.
    The Sumerians wrote down the accounts about the floods.
    The later invading illiterate Akkadians heard the stories. They learned to write Sumerian. Finally they adopted the Sumerian signs to write their own language.
    It is called the Cuneiform.

    Gossip spreads. Tales change.
    The floods of Euphrat and Tigris never reached the lowest foothills of Zagros.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    So far what you've done is make positive assertions that the flood account is completely fictional. That's a far cry from asking for positive proof.
    Ummm, of course it was fictional. If there was a world-wide flood, where did the water come from and where did it go? There's not enough water on the surface of the Earth to submerge all land, even if all glaciers melted. And that's without even getting into the absurd notion that all humans outside of Noah's group were killed.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #35
    Ginkgo
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    Dinosaur bones inside or it didn't happen.

  6. #36
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Ummm, of course it was fictional. If there was a world-wide flood, where did the water come from and where did it go? There's not enough water on the surface of the Earth to submerge all land, even if all glaciers melted. And that's without even getting into the absurd notion that all humans outside of Noah's group were killed.
    Read the thread and you'll find that these points have been addressed... in sum, the Noah story does not have to be accurate in every respect (or even most respects) to have still been based on actual events. That's like saying that because Braveheart was fantasy, there was no William Wallace.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Read the thread and you'll find that these points have been addressed... in sum, the Noah story does not have to be accurate in every respect (or even most respects) to have still been based on actual events.
    How far from an actual event can a story diverge and still be the same story?

    That's like saying that because Braveheart was fantasy, there was no William Wallace.
    This is a pretty bad comparison. The conflicts between the Scots and Brits are pretty well documented, and no one is claiming that the Braveheart story is historical fact anyway. There is not one bit of the biblical flood story that is verifiable.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #38
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    These types of reports have been popping up every once in a while since at least I was a young child 20 years ago. I remember watching one tv show where explorers were using divining rods to find the ark. lol.
    it's still worth keeping an eye on, but yes -- I remember when Noah's ark was "first discovered" back in the '70's and showed up on "In Search Of."

    Weird how it keeps being rediscovered.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    That's like saying that because Braveheart was fantasy, there was no William Wallace.
    There was a William Wallace... but nothing like the movie.
    There was a Robert the Bruce... but nothing like the movie.

    But I think most people prefer the movie.

    Like you, I don't think it's unreasonable to believe in some sort of flood, though.
    The story shows up in all the major cultures of the time period, correct?
    Something no doubt triggered that.

    Still, the thought of it somehow containing two of every animal on the planet, coupled with how animals must have been herbivores before the flood but now some ate meat afterward (how convenient, since you wouldn't want one of your last two rhesus monkeys to get devoured by the tiger twins) -- I mean, there's just a lot of obviously mythic elements to the story that, while we did not directly observe said event, are pretty reasonably labeled as exaggerated or highly unlikely.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #39
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Still, the thought of it somehow containing two of every animal on the planet, coupled with how animals must have been herbivores before the flood but now some ate meat afterward (how convenient, since you wouldn't want one of your last two rhesus monkeys to get devoured by the tiger twins) -- I mean, there's just a lot of obviously mythic elements to the story that, while we did not directly observe said event, are pretty reasonably labeled as exaggerated or highly unlikely.
    I absolutely agree with you on this... I just disagree with the premise that because there are mythic elements in the Genesis flood story, there was never an ark.

  10. #40
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I absolutely agree with you on this... I just disagree with the premise that because there are mythic elements in the Genesis flood story, there was never an ark.
    Well, yeah. To make such a leap of logic would be highly irrational.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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