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  1. #21
    facettes de la petite mor Words of Ivory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    What pre-Judaic religion is it said that Judaism derived the flood story from?
    Obviously there's a starting point for everything, Oberon.

    The point I'm making is that if the story was even remotely inspired by anything, it was so far removed from whatever the original event was as to be completely irrelevant. Hence my rather sarcastic closing line in my last post.

    There was no mystic boat that herded the animals of the world, after a world consuming flood took over, preserving them and a handful of humans. Simply creating such a boat would have been impossible. If it was based on a real event, it was a bunch of people and a handful of animals in a very isolated part of the world.

    And its remains certainly aren't sitting around in the mountain-tops of Amarat.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Life calls out the meaning of pure jubilance,
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  2. #22
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words of Ivory View Post
    The point I'm making is that if the story was even remotely inspired by anything, it was so far removed from whatever the original event was as to be completely irrelevant. Hence my rather sarcastic closing line in my last post.

    There was no mystic boat that herded the animals of the world, after a world consuming flood took over, preserving them and a handful of humans. Simply creating such a boat would have been impossible. If it was based on a real event, it was a bunch of people and a handful of animals in a very isolated part of the world.

    And its remains certainly aren't sitting around in the mountain-tops of Ararat.
    Again, epistemologically, more than you know. However, you're teaching me loads about you.

    You seem far more concerned about the religious connotations of the story than the physical aspects of it; you desire very much to dismiss any religious significance from the flood story, which is fine.

    Though I don't share your perspective, I recognize your right to it. Pax.

  3. #23
    facettes de la petite mor Words of Ivory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Again, epistemologically, more than you know. However, you're teaching me loads about you.
    I doubt that.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You seem far more concerned about the religious connotations of the story than the physical aspects of it.
    Because I don't believe that there's any physical merit to it.

    It's a story in a book, just like near everything else in the Book of Genesis was.

    Unless you can show me proof the contrary? That's what I'm looking for.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Life calls out the meaning of pure jubilance,
    if you'll only take the time to hear it."
    ~ Words of Ivory ~

  4. #24
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words of Ivory View Post
    Unless you can show me proof the contrary? That's what I'm looking for.
    So far what you've done is make positive assertions that the flood account is completely fictional. That's a far cry from asking for positive proof.

    Believe as you like, but don't make assertions in the forum that you categorically cannot know for certain unless you advertise them as such. I call 'bullshit' on that.

  5. #25
    facettes de la petite mor Words of Ivory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    So far what you've done is make positive assertions that the flood account is completely fictional. That's a far cry from asking for positive proof.
    I do believe something is completely fictional until something has come about to prove it, some evidence of its existence, either circumstantial or physical. The only "evidence" or the ark is a bunch of vaguely connected stories that ripped each other off. Using your line of logic, people 2000 years down the line will end up believing in The Force solely because they found some ancient documents mentioning it.

    I'm only spiritual in the sense that I believe nobody has the answers to what happens to life after death, and even then I believe that solely because there isn't any categorical evidence of what that might be.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Believe as you like, but don't make assertions in the forum that you categorically cannot know for certain unless you advertise them as such.
    It's called having an opinion. I never claimed it was fact. It's simply what *I* believe.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Life calls out the meaning of pure jubilance,
    if you'll only take the time to hear it."
    ~ Words of Ivory ~

  6. #26
    morose bourgeoisie
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    From Wiki:
    Sumerian
    Further information: Eridu Genesis
    The earliest extant flood legend is contained in the fragmentary Sumerian Eridu Genesis, datable by its script to the 17th century BCE.[1] The story tells how the god Enki warns Ziusudra (meaning "he saw life," in reference to the gift of immortality given him by the gods), of the gods' decision to destroy mankind in a flood—the passage describing why the gods have decided this is lost. Enki instructs Ziusudra (also known as Atrahasis) to build a large boat—the text describing the instructions is also lost. After which he is left to repopulate the earth, as in many other flood legends.
    After a flood of seven days, Zi-ud-sura makes appropriate sacrifices and prostrations to An (sky-god) and Enlil (chief of the gods), and is given eternal life in Dilmun (the Sumerian Eden) by An and Enlil.

    Old wine/new bottle

  7. #27
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Words of Ivory View Post
    I do believe something is completely fictional until something has come about to prove it, some evidence of its existence, either circumstantial or physical. The only "evidence" or the ark is a bunch of vaguely connected stories that ripped each other off. Using your line of logic, people 2000 years down the line will end up believing in The Force solely because they found some ancient documents mentioning it.
    This whole 'critical thinking' thing... you're not very good at it, are you?

    There's a middle ground between being certain a thing is true, and being certain a thing is untrue. It's called "not knowing." There's nothing wrong with not knowing. I suspect that if people would be more up-front and truthful about what they don't know, the world would be a better place.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    This whole 'critical thinking' thing... you're not very good at it, are you?
    Sort of feedback everyone's always eager to hear and always makes them receptive to whatever you've got to say next

  9. #29
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Sort of feedback everyone's always eager to hear and always makes them receptive to whatever you've got to say next
    LOL. Yeah, you've got a point there.

    It's also the sort of thing I say just before I bail out of a thread in which I'm wasting my time.

  10. #30
    facettes de la petite mor Words of Ivory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Old wine/new bottle
    Thank you.

    I wasn't sure if there wasn't something dating back that far, but thanks for educating me.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    This whole 'critical thinking' thing... you're not very good at it, are you?
    How about discussing the topic at hand instead of resorting to character insults, yeah? If you don't like my way of thinking, that's entirely your choice, but the subject of the debate in this thread isn't about how we choose to think, but what we choose I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I suspect that if people would be more up-front and truthful about what they don't know, the world would be a better place.
    I'm entirely aware of what I do and don't know, but until something smarter comes around to show me some convincing evidence that this is more than a derivative work of fiction, I have no reason to believe otherwise. And nebbykoo's post just added more weight to my opinion of that being the case.

    Please show me your evidence to the contrary.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Life calls out the meaning of pure jubilance,
    if you'll only take the time to hear it."
    ~ Words of Ivory ~

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