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  1. #21
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The problem is that America's situation looks like a Gordion knot to me. I don't know which end to pull from. In theory, vastly improved education would really help, also so would media with higher standards. Why don't we have that, though? Most likely due to the overwhelming corporate influence in this country. But I don't know how to fight that in any measured way, and that's the really disturbing problem.

    My expectations are low.
    Start a privately owned corporation that will replace a publicly traded corporation. I believe this is the way that the economy will shift over the next few decades. Of course you can help hasten the evolution if you like.
    That will certainly get rid of (most of) the corporations with their hands in the government.
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  2. #22
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Start a privately owned corporation that will replace a publicly traded corporation. I believe this is the way that the economy will shift over the next few decades. Of course you can help hasten the evolution if you like.
    That will certainly get rid of (most of) the corporations with their hands in the government.
    I would rather replace corporations altogether with cooperatives.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    I doubt many people know the top US imports and exports. Basically, Stop using the imports and make more of the exports. As citizens, we still* control the government regardless of how futile it may seem.

    Top US import = Crude Oil
    Top US export = Civilian aircraft

    Top US Imports

    btw, crude oil isn't just about energy. that's a media spin.

    Uses of Crude Oil | Natural Environment Blog
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  4. #24
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Wait, US's main export is aircraft, as in that one item in which they keep revising GDP numbers long after the year because they're such big ticket items because of?

    No wonder we're screwed up.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    I think the US(and global economy) is unsustainable, there seems to be this idea of infinite growth and expansion. This cannot last forever because the planet we live on has finite resourses and until we find another one we have to preserve the planet we live on. Just take a look at human population growth, at the beginning of the 19th century the world population hit 1 billion(and it took all of human history to reach), it took about 120-130 years to reach 2 billion, it took around 30-35 years to reach 3 billion in 1960. By 1974 we hit 4 billion, 1986 5 billion, 1999 6 billion, around 2011 to 2012 we are projected to reach 7 billion. The natural carrying capacity of the earth is estimated to be around only 1-2 billion humans(dear humans, I will have to ask about 4-5 billion of you to stop living, thank you for your convenience).

    Guess what helped in the already exponential growth of population, the "green revolution", aided by cheap oil and this age of cheap oil is coming to an end, add the fact that most of our energy resources(coal) will peak in production by mid century, how the hell will humanity keep up it's increasing economic growth, reduce population-I think mother nature might take care that problem for us. There is NO energy resource that can replace oil without hugely disrupting economic growth. Add the fact that the US economy has been growing off mostly credit from the future and other countries for the past few decades, the US imports more than it exports, like a little child who is depended on their parents for all their needs.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    The green revolution is going to end soon... The blue revolution will be far more interesting and hopefully sustainable for more than a few decades.

  7. #27
    Senior Member durentu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    The natural carrying capacity of the earth is estimated to be around only 1-2 billion humans(dear humans, I will have to ask about 4-5 billion of you to stop living, thank you for your convenience).
    There's an actual method of measurement for this and it's called the Global hectare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. A measurement of the biocapacity of the earth.

    Basically, if we lived like the average american, earth can support only 1-2 billion. If we lived like the average Rawandan, the earth can support 12 billion.
    "People often say that this or that person has not yet found himself. But the self is not something one finds; it is something one creates." - Thomas Szasz

  8. #28
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    I think the US(and global economy) is unsustainable, there seems to be this idea of infinite growth and expansion. This cannot last forever because the planet we live on has finite resourses and until we find another one we have to preserve the planet we live on. Just take a look at human population growth, at the beginning of the 19th century the world population hit 1 billion(and it took all of human history to reach), it took about 120-130 years to reach 2 billion, it took around 30-35 years to reach 3 billion in 1960. By 1974 we hit 4 billion, 1986 5 billion, 1999 6 billion, around 2011 to 2012 we are projected to reach 7 billion. The natural carrying capacity of the earth is estimated to be around only 1-2 billion humans(dear humans, I will have to ask about 4-5 billion of you to stop living, thank you for your convenience).
    First, I rather seriously doubt the carrying capacity of planet Earth is so low, considering present technology. With modern farming practices, the American Midwest alone has enough arable land to comfortably sustain the whole world population -- all seven billion of us. And that's not counting that Africa, for example (the second-largest continent in the planet) only utilizes 16% of its own arable land. The problem is that present technology is seriously underutilized for conservation purposes. For example, we could be recycling greywater and blackwater and using power generators to desalinate saltwater.

    As for infinite growth, it is perfectly sustainable so long as it depends on total factor productivity, rather than growth in production inputs. That is, technology-driven growth is infinitely sustainable, and accounts for about half of present global GDP growth (and as much as 80% in developed nations -- raw inputs are actually declining in the US).
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  9. #29
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    The green revolution is going to end soon... The blue revolution will be far more interesting and hopefully sustainable for more than a few decades.
    what about the yellow revolution

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I would rather replace corporations altogether with cooperatives.
    Then get off your ass and found a 501c3 non-profit manufacturing collective. You might study the kibbutz model; it has proven effective.

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