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  1. #51
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    As an institution in the US?
    Jobs.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Could slavery have survived if the US civil war had gone differently? Or was it a doomed institution anyway?

    I'm not aware of the global trends in relation to slavery anyway, apart from the fact that the UK had abolished white slavery and then afterward slavery per se and been hunting ships and ports engaged in the slave trade around the world.

    Its difficult to find a history of slavery which isnt also connected to heritage, ancestory or a particular ethnicity's "race consciousness", if anyone could recommend me a book or two I'd be interested.

    Its possibly more gendered now but I think it has survived in some ways, as has indentured labour and wage slavery in the form of sweated labour, I'm not talking about that so much as the full blown variety upon which entire economies where once dependent.
    U.S. ?? :steam: You're provoking my -T-. I find your post/question tedious because the first thing you mention is "U.S. civil war," as if that had anything to do with global slavery.

    No, it wouldn't have survived. If U.S. ignorance had streched any further than it did it would've turned out a catastrophy. Why? Because of Europe. Citizens of the United States has made a bad habbit of thinking they are the first at everything, the savior of everyone, and one of the most richest and powerful nations on the planet (Err.. wrong.. my piece of shit country (and it's not more than 200 years old) is richer and got more political influence than the U.S.). Truth be told, U.S. citizens are European. They came from Europe, they got their roots/heritage in Europe, they're still attracted to Europe, and they take most - if not all - of their policy from Europe. Around the time of the U.S. civil war more than 800k Norwegians immigrated to the U.S., along with a bunch of other people from various different European nations (we're talking millions). You would think we influenced the Americans somehow. I suggest you look at European history, not American. The U.S. of A is a third world country, always has been, and always will be. You can tell, because Americans still think racism exist, and it does, but only in their country. They're like 50 years late compared to every single North-/West European country.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post
    Jobs.
    Jobs are not slavery, unless you consider the fact that humans have to consume nutrients in order to survive to be slavery. In that sense, all lifeforms are slaves.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #54
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angell_m View Post
    The U.S. of A is a third world country, always has been, and always will be. You can tell, because Americans still think racism exist, and it does, but only in their country. They're like 50 years late compared to every single North-/West European country.
    With this statement, it's obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    First World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The concept of the First World first originated during the Cold War, where it was used to describe countries that were aligned with the United States.
    How can the US be a third world country when it is central to the definition of "first world"? Here's your chance to invent a new definition, or to backpedal.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #55
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    With this statement, it's obvious that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    First World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I'll take that into consideration next time some African-American pulls up and talks about the anti-racism statement in Nigger as if the song was made yesterday. That song was made in 1993, it's old news-- Welcome to the 21st century America. For a country (mine) that was established for no more than 200 years ago, we sure curve stomped you fools. Laws, racism, electronics, oil, health care, you name it, we can do everything you can't, and we did it with less than 5 million people.

    Ps. Oh, oh. I love Americans though.. BP, Bush administration, Lawsuit because of a hot coffee cup, "Norway, what state is that in?", not to mention the last brilliant inflation financial crisis. You big boys sure do well. Nah, the U.S. is a third world country compared to the lot in my opinion. I can live for four months in the states with one monthly wage, haha, whereas an American would fear bankruptcy just by buying a hotdog up here. I'm quite sure you would have to google your butt off about Norway now, because you haven't bothered to take a peak outside your own borders. Unless you're a history teacher, of course, but I'm quite sure a European would know more about America than the average American.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angell_m View Post
    I'll take that into consideration next time some African-American pulls up and talks about the anti-racism statement in Nigger as if the song was made yesterday. That song was made in 1993, it's old news-- Welcome to the 21st century America. For a country (mine) that was established for no more than 200 years ago, we sure curve stomped you fools. Laws, racism, electronics, oil, health care, you name it, we can do everything you can't, and we did it with less than 5 million people.

    Ps. Oh, oh. I love Americans though.. BP, Bush administration, Lawsuit because of a hot coffee cup, "Norway, what state is that in?", not to mention the last brilliant inflation financial crisis. You big boys sure do well. Nah, the U.S. is a third world country compared to the lot in my opinion. I can live for four months in the states with one monthly wage, haha, whereas an American would fear bankruptcy just by buying a hotdog up here. I'm quite sure you would have to google your butt off about Norway now, because you haven't bothered to take a peak outside your own borders. Unless you're a history teacher, of course, but I'm quite sure a European would know more about America than the average American.
    Do you feel better now that you've gotten that off your chest?

    By the way, it's "curb stomped", not "curve stomped".



    I hope you keep posting so I can keep laughing. You're a pretty entertaining troll.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #58
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that analogies with the family are apt when discussing the economy and social conscience, the bonds are different and there are also families and families, the cruelty and neglect in some families if it where upscaled to the economy or society would be disasterous.

    Capitalism can be aggressive but if you examine the theory and founders it was originally intended as a socially beneficial and conscientious system which would harness individuals aggressive streaks, selfishness, less than virtuous motives (which pretty much everyone is in agreement about being had to school or breed out of people) to serve the common good.

    JS Mill concluded in his book on political economy that if people lost out as workers or producers then they at least would win by being consumers and that in theory the economy depending on consumers the most would have to eventually adjust to the money in the pockets of consumers.

    Now there are problems with that because a market can operate with a small amount of money circulating among elites or niche consumers and their immediate servants or it can operate as a mass economy where the state or something like it can circulate more money through tax and spend. However, generally, he's right, economies need consumers and they serve consumers, even if badly, under the capitalist arrangement.

    The thing about exploitation is that it may be endemic in any arrangement, the question is who benefits and why, slavery and totalitarianism is definitely a lot worse than wages, you know the saying about fair exchange is no robbery.

    Problems such as rough sleeping, I think that's what you mean by homeless, not the transiants who live at multiple addresses or travelling people with no fixed abode, are complex and not simply to do with the availability of affordable residences.

    One of the big questions is about what is affordable and why it is unaffordable, for instance you will find that renting a property is unaffordable if you spend all your money on alcohol, drugs or "good times". Most of the time an inability to hold down a job, which is an old and working class expression, is reflected by a wider inability to be "steady" or live an unchaotic lifestyle.

    However, in relation to homelessness and specifically rough sleeping, so long as its legal to sleep under the bridge, whether you're rich or poor, people will do it. Working directly with rough sleepers and itinerants in a drop in centre shattered a lot of my socialist illusions about everything having a structural explanation, Orwell wrote about this in his down and out writings, its worth reading. Sometimes people are treated like animals because they behave like animals, sometimes underdogs are just dogs all the same.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by angell_m View Post
    U.S. ?? :steam: You're provoking my -T-. I find your post/question tedious because the first thing you mention is "U.S. civil war," as if that had anything to do with global slavery.

    No, it wouldn't have survived. If U.S. ignorance had streched any further than it did it would've turned out a catastrophy. Why? Because of Europe. Citizens of the United States has made a bad habbit of thinking they are the first at everything, the savior of everyone, and one of the most richest and powerful nations on the planet (Err.. wrong.. my piece of shit country (and it's not more than 200 years old) is richer and got more political influence than the U.S.). Truth be told, U.S. citizens are European. They came from Europe, they got their roots/heritage in Europe, they're still attracted to Europe, and they take most - if not all - of their policy from Europe. Around the time of the U.S. civil war more than 800k Norwegians immigrated to the U.S., along with a bunch of other people from various different European nations (we're talking millions). You would think we influenced the Americans somehow. I suggest you look at European history, not American. The U.S. of A is a third world country, always has been, and always will be. You can tell, because Americans still think racism exist, and it does, but only in their country. They're like 50 years late compared to every single North-/West European country.
    Is it possible to provoke T?

    Er, slavery was significant but like I say it had been abolished by the British and other nations, I was wondering if it could have survived in one country as an official legally recognised and protected social institution if the global trend was against it.

    I'm not sure about what US citizens think, I'm not going to presume anything in that respect when there's so many US citizens visit the forum and I can ask them what they think.

    I really dont think the US is a third world nation.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Do you feel better now that you've gotten that off your chest?

    By the way, it's "curb stomped", not "curve stomped".



    I hope you keep posting so I can keep laughing. You're a pretty entertaining troll.
    I dont think they're a troll.

    They've only got one side of the story perhaps.

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