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  1. #11
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    Not sure if it could, but it definitely should have. Goddamn I want some slaves, or be one. Anyhow... life would have been easier.
    I'm hoping this was a drunk post...
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  2. #12
    Ginkgo
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    Seems like everyone's forgotten the sex slave industry in Thailand...

  3. #13
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Well, if we're going to step outside the cosy "Western" bubble when considering contemporary slavery, there's actually no shortage of traditional chattel slavery still, although it's much less widespread than it's used to be. Mauritania is the outstanding example, I believe.
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  4. #14
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    I mentioned this to my uncle today who's a big civil war fanatic and he hit me with a "fun fact". apparently around the time of the war, Delaware, which was a "border state" and endorsed slavery, had roughly 20,000 african american laborers, only 2,000 of which were slaves. so 90 % of them were already making wages, more or less, and it was perfectly legal for them to do so.
    Well, yeah. There were free blacks in every state in the South, for that matter, both before and after the war. Slavery was legal, but it wasn't mandatory. In fact, a few free blacks were slave owners.

  5. #15
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Could slavery have survived if the US civil war had gone differently? Or was it a doomed institution anyway?
    I think it would have survived. It's not like the North gave two shits about slavery; slavery was abolished in the North because Northerners wanted to avoid miscegenation and then abolished in general as a war tactic.

    But frankly that's a moot question given that there's no way the war could have gone differently. The South simply lacked the resources to fight a full-scale war against the North.
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  6. #16
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    But frankly that's a moot question given that there's no way the war could have gone differently. The South simply lacked the resources to fight a full-scale war against the North.
    Eh. They could have prolonged it long enough to make the North lose interest. If Grant hadn't been put in charge of the Federal forces, if Lee had listened to Longstreet at Gettysburg, if Jackson hadn't been killed... there were a lot of turning points in the war, and a lot of ways in which the South might have pushed the political pressure in the North to end the war... which was considerable... past the tipping point.

    In war, you don't necessarily have to defeat your enemy on the battlefield. Making it too expensive to be worth it, or politically unpopular for your enemy, are two other ways to win.

  7. #17
    Sniffles
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    In the earlier stages of the war, the South actually was winning.

  8. #18
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    In the earlier stages of the war, the South actually was winning.
    Because they figured out the tactical advantage railroads presented first. Once the North (which had twice as many railroads and at least ten times the South's metalworks manufacturing capacity) caught on, oh boy were they fucked.
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  9. #19
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Because they figured out the tactical advantage railroads presented first. Once the North (which had twice as many railroads and at least ten times the South's metalworks manufacturing capacity) caught on, oh boy were they fucked.
    Yes and no. I've been following this discussiong to death lately on this issue between military historians.

  10. #20
    Oberon
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    The primary obstacle for the North was not one of resources... it was one of resolve. It wasn't until Lincoln found a commanding general whose resolve matched his own that the North really began to turn the tide. In Grant the North finally had a general willing to press his primary advantages: men and materiel.

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