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  1. #31
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Surely what they should have done is file them down the tunnel like the others...

    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #32
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Also, I just wikipedied that Citizenship of the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and apparently there's freedom of movement and such but, " Migrant EU citizens have a "legitimate expectation of a limited degree of financial solidarity... having regard to their degree of integration into the host society"
    So I'm assuming the decision was based on the fact that the expelled romas weren't assimilated in french society. Which isn't a bad argument actually, as human communities are based on cooperation. So technically speaking it isn't wrong to consider a non assimilated group that still uses the country's ressources as parasitic. The issue is that people react emotionally to that word by seeing it as something pejorative/negative. Which it isn't, it's the name for a type of ressource acquiring strategies.

    Now the issue lies in the legitimacy of throwing individuals out of the territory, and I just didn't follow the details of the story (and I don't mean the sensational news most people base their opinions on) so I cannot say.
    What I know is that I still see a shitload of romas begging and such in the middle of the Champs Elysées so it's not like they're being hunted down. I'm assuming it's likely that the expelled romas were expelled based on a sounder rational that simply being romas.

    I just don't have the data required to reach a decision. But then again (at least) some of the people posting here don't have any idea what they're talking about and don't even bother to aknowledge it before using swear words or calling people racists.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  3. #33
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubee0173 View Post
    damn europeans fucking it up for everyone. and having native american/ sinti roma/ english ancestry, i have a pretty decent perspective i would say.
    No, that makes you biased.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  4. #34
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Well...it's Roma. I mean, their concept of society is based on stealing and leaving. I do agree that they're still human beings, but I can't see anything wrong if they're mistreated by whatever nation they find themselves in. Still, I find it somewhat laughable that they're trying to talk about "foreign-born" Romas, as if they really can be considered as having a peculiar nationality.



    Yeah, but I gather you don't have experience with Romas? France has a large, extremely large (possibly the largest among European countries, excepting UK) immigrant population - both first, second and third generation - yet they've never had to expel any of those.
    I hate racism, but talk with anyone here in Portugal about gypsies and see their reaction. Their problem is that they rarely want to be a part of society. They wanna make their own rules. That brings a slew of problems with it.
    They also isolate themselves and never blend in with the rest.

  5. #35
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Also, I just wikipedied that Citizenship of the European Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and apparently there's freedom of movement and such but, " Migrant EU citizens have a "legitimate expectation of a limited degree of financial solidarity... having regard to their degree of integration into the host society"
    So I'm assuming the decision was based on the fact that the expelled romas weren't assimilated in french society.
    Explain to me how kicking them out helps with the assimilation problem?
    Now the issue lies in the legitimacy of throwing individuals out of the territory, and I just didn't follow the details of the story (and I don't mean the sensational news most people base their opinions on) so I cannot say.
    What I know is that I still see a shitload of romas begging and such in the middle of the Champs Elysées so it's not like they're being hunted down. I'm assuming it's likely that the expelled romas were expelled based on a sounder rational that simply being romas.

    I just don't have the data required to reach a decision.
    And yet you've reached one. Funny that. It's practically the definition of prejudice...

    If it were a legitimate move, the EU justice minister wouldn't be condemning it in the strongest of terms. You can't just join the EU and expect freedom of movement to be unilateral. It doesn't work that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #36
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I hate racism, but talk with anyone here in Portugal about gypsies and see their reaction. Their problem is that they rarely want to be a part of society. They wanna make their own rules. That brings a slew of problems with it.
    They also isolate themselves and never blend in with the rest
    .
    By that definition I should be deported too...

    Fact is, we already have legislation to protect personal property and to prosecute those who commit crime. If the justice system were working effectively there wouldn't be a problem. You can't blame the Roma for all the systemic failures in a society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #37
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Explain to me how kicking them out helps with the assimilation problem?

    And yet you've reached one. Funny that. It's practically the definition of prejudice...

    If it were a legitimate move, the EU justice minister wouldn't be condemning it in the strongest of terms. You can't just join the EU and expect freedom of movement to be unilateral. It doesn't work that way.
    No I havent. You're just being irrational. As usual.
    I mentioned EU laws, said that based on these limited information it seems likely that the legal reason for throwing the concerned romas out was their non assimilation. Then noted that I still saw alot of romas in a very well frequented part of Paris and one could assume it wouldn't be the case if the expelling of the romas was some sort of illegal witchhunt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Explain to me how kicking them out helps with the assimilation problem?
    Why would it be France's role to do all the work ? A contract goes both ways, the right to stay on the territory gives a fair chance to anybody to at least try to assimilate/ do their part.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  8. #38
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    No I havent. You're just being irrational. As usual.
    And you're just name-calling, as usual, instead of substantiating your argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    By that definition I should be deported too...

    Fact is, we already have legislation to protect personal property and to prosecute those who commit crime. If the justice system were working effectively there wouldn't be a problem. You can't blame the Roma for all the systemic failures in a society.
    I don't agree with deportation. I do agree it's a problem with the system.

    I'm just acknowledging the fact that there tends to be a pattern to how they live "within" society, from what I've seen and dealt with. If you're a gypsie and you want to get a college degree and live more in line with the rest of society, other gypsies tend to dislike you too, for example. It's a tough nut to crack.

  10. #40
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    And you're just name-calling, as usual, instead of substantiating your argument.
    My, that was substancial.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

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