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  1. #41
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Interesting. I've always wondered why Jews would let themselves be worked to death in concentration camps without revolting. I'm getting that whole "boiling frog syndrome" feeling about America's situation.
    I think if they had imposed the camps much earlier than they did, it would not have been tolerated by them. By the time they did, though, their spirits were so weak that they didn't know how to do anything but give in. It was ingenious in a sinister way: get them gradually used to being restricted and repressed, break their spirits with shame, and then tell them of their fate after they've basically hit rock bottom and they'll feel like they have nothing to fight for because they've already died on the inside.


  2. #42
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, Wandering, I think it should be considered that much of this talk about the USA or Russia is based on the reaction assuming it did happen, not the plausibility of it happening.
    It's just for discussion.
    Ah, yes, of course Sorry. I'll try and give it a try in that light later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I've always wondered why Jews would let themselves be worked to death in concentration camps without revolting.
    I'm with Athenian: most of them were just so broken inside, they just had nothing to fight FOR. When you have nowhere to call home and to dream of, nobody to call family and community, nothing to look forward to except more discrimination and hate no matter where you go and what you do... well, where do you find the strength to keep fighting?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    ...well, where do you find the strength to keep fighting?
    I think the question is "where do you find the strength to START fighting?"

    Most of those killed in the camps never raised a hand in their own defense.

  4. #44
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I think that the Stanford Prison experiment explained the prisoner mindset as well as that of the guards! Once you've been made to feel dehumanized by the other laws put into place you kind of lose the will to fight back :sad:

    There was of course a resistance, but it wasn't major, nor is it well publicized.
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  5. #45
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    There was of course a resistance, but it wasn't major, nor is it well publicized.
    A handful of Jewish partisans in the Warsaw ghetto gave the Nazis absolute fits, until the Germans just burned it all down. These few were by far the exception.

    In Germany, most Jews were good German citizens by culture, and it was virtually unthinkable for them to raise a hand against their own government. The majority of privately owned arms had been confiscated years prior anyway.

  6. #46
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Interesting. I've always wondered why Jews would let themselves be worked to death in concentration camps without revolting. I'm getting that whole "boiling frog syndrome" feeling about America's situation.
    In Germany they first came for the Communists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

    Then they came for the Jews,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Catholics,
    and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

    Then they came for me —
    and by that time no one was left to speak up.


    Pastor Martin Niemöller

  7. #47
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    The demoralization of a people seems so horrific. Slowly breaking their spirits, taking away everything they have to live for, dehumanizing them, taking away their ability to defend themselves, and nobody speaking up on their behalf. No wonder they couldn't find the strength to fight. When you are so separated from everything, then you really do become nothing.

  8. #48
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    The demoralization of a people seems so horrific. Slowly breaking their spirits, taking away everything they have to live for, dehumanizing them, taking away their ability to defend themselves, and nobody speaking up on their behalf. No wonder they couldn't find the strength to fight. When you are so separated from everything, then you really do become nothing.
    That's quite a profound statement, Kiddo.

    But I agree... it's horrific. It seems ironic that something so evil could have been done with such skill and strategy. I'm used to thinking of evil as being done from ignorance or short-sightedness. This kind is just scary, because you can see the devious intellect behind it.

  9. #49
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Try comparing what's wrong with America from an attitude point of view and compare it to an underdeveloped ESTJ. The similarities are remarkable. The most obvious being the knee jerk reactions and the constant state of stress. I, for one, have been pleasantly corrected by the American's I've met on these forums. From the outside looking in I could have sworn that rednecks ruled the whole country... oh wait A redneck rules the country.

    Is it not worrying by itself that as a country you voted in a guy who cannot even manage speech without screwing it up? After having watched a re-run of the clip with Bush and that impersonator both reading similar speeches except the impersonator got it right and Bush sounded like an ass! Does it not say a lot about a country that they would suffer such a person in any office never mind the central one!

    America needs to think more and put less faith in the rules that they cling to. Einstein is remembered as a great intellectual and he argued against his own work, that alone should highlight that no rule should be clung to blindly and that's ignoring the huge levels of examples which are encountered day to day.

    [I should note that I will physically injure the person who asks for an exhaustive list!]
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #50
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Try comparing what's wrong with America from an attitude point of view and compare it to an underdeveloped ESTJ. The similarities are remarkable. The most obvious being the knee jerk reactions and the constant state of stress. I, for one, have been pleasantly corrected by the American's I've met on these forums. From the outside looking in I could have sworn that rednecks ruled the whole country... oh wait A redneck rules the country.
    I can imagine. It gets worse in the east, I think. I see far more ESTJ in the east coast than other parts of the country. Even so, I feel like I've become a bit more intelligent reading things written by people outside the United States on here despite being in college, if that tells you anything.
    Is it not worrying by itself that as a country you voted in a guy who cannot even manage speech without screwing it up? After having watched a re-run of the clip with Bush and that impersonator both reading similar speeches except the impersonator got it right and Bush sounded like an ass! Does it not say a lot about a country that they would suffer such a person in any office never mind the central one!
    I just wish I knew how to get them to elect someone who would actually do a good job. I hope they nominate better candidates this time.
    America needs to think more and put less faith in the rules that they cling to. Einstein is remembered as a great intellectual and he argued against his own work, that alone should highlight that no rule should be clung to blindly and that's ignoring the huge levels of examples which are encountered day to day.
    I've felt that way for awhile... it seems like they focus too much on maintaining established institutions in the face of new understandings. Like trying to act as though people still fit into several traditional roles when they've clearly outgrown them in many ways. It never occurred to anyone to look at what we have now, and mold the understandings. They just try to shove the new into the old categories whether it fits or not. It seems like they abandon the best of our traditions and maintain the least meaningful, at times.

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