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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its a difficult question, if you took the objective impact of policing and law enforcement even of law itself in preventing or reducing crime or problem behaviour you'd just become resigned to each. A lot of people would be out of work too.
    Objective impact? Do you mean prisons that are so overcrowded that they set some violent offenders free because they don't have enough room for all of the non-violent drug offenders? That objective impact?

    There is no evidence to support the assertion that prohibition reduces drug addiction.

    Make-work jobs do not benefit society in the long term, and may actually have a negative long term economic impact.

    This all belongs in a different thread.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #22
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Objective impact? Do you mean prisons that are so overcrowded that they set some violent offenders free because they don't have enough room for all of the non-violent drug offenders? That objective impact?

    There is no evidence to support the assertion that prohibition reduces drug addiction.

    Make-work jobs do not benefit society in the long term, and may actually have a negative long term economic impact.

    This all belongs in a different thread.
    I dont generally mean things which I dont say.

    Do you mean that the moon is made of cheese?

  3. #23
    morose bourgeoisie
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    If we can just get one more NTJ in here...then ask them to please hold the guard rail.

  4. #24
    meat popsicle r.a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I wonder if the previous posters had read it though, considering that they did not raise any objections to points in that article that I have a strong suspiscion they'd disagree with.
    what i said was all i felt like saying. i live in arizona, and the topic has been worn out enough in real-life conversation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    First and foremost, though, these things won't ever really get better until condtions in the home countries of these immigrants get better. In the mean time, I reckon loosening our policy on immigrants, rather than tightening it, would reduce these problems.
    how so? i'm actually pretty open-minded about peaceful, non-facist problem solving.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Are you guys crazy? Seriously - this isn't about tightening up the borders, this is about having compassion for the human trafficking that is going on. This is horrible and sick. THERE ARE WHITE AMERICAN CITIZENS WHO ARE COYOTES. It's not just "a Latino problem" and to even suggest that it is is not only racist but ... inhumane.
    wtf... who suggested what?

    i happen to be latino and also personally know female coyote victims, and some of my dearest friends are illegals. i've heard every variation of the story presented in the article. there are thousands of stories just like it, happening every day. yes yes, human right violations indeed. whatcha gonna do about it?

    i am for taking action on this. the liberal responses from concerned white people around the rest of the country are understandable. it shouldn't have to be like this. but it is.

    i'm open to better ideas. but right now, we need to police the fuck out of the borders. trust me, i hate police as much as the next person with an exotic name who has personally experienced grossly unnecessary racially-based police brutality. but shit is OUT OF HAND. not just with human trafficking, but drug cartels and fucking GANGS armed to the teeth and ready for war. go to west phoenix and see for yourself. crying about it won't fix anything.

    if it actually works and most of the trash is taken out, i am all for opening up our borders again. i'd love for my friends who are illegally here to live without fear of persecution.

    but you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet if no-one else has better ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm totally disgusted that these were the only two responses. I guess nobody else wanted to take the time to read.
    "All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is destructive and evil. Leaders destroy the followers and the followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."
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  5. #25
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle99 View Post
    For the record, my position is that hard borders are a violation of human rights.
    Interesting. On this point you differ with human civilization almost in totality, and going back to the dawn of recorded history.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r.a View Post
    go to west phoenix and see for yourself. crying about it won't fix anything.
    Arpaio is too busy torturing petty thieves for stealing bubble gum, than to do anything about West Phoenix.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Interesting. On this point you differ with human civilization almost in totality, and going back to the dawn of recorded history.
    It could be a rejection of the have vs. have-not reality that started long before humans entered the field, but I wonder how one could back up such a bold statement. I certainly see the value of a wall, a fence, the blinds on my windows, borders, etc. But that would be all too obvious I suppose.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Interesting. On this point you differ with human civilization almost in totality, and going back to the dawn of recorded history.
    Got to be honest I agree with open borders in theory but in practice I dont agree with economic migration, I totally detest welfare tourism, criminal migrations (yes criminals do migrate to avoid convictions for their crimes or to receive lesser penalties) and racial migrations (there's a lot of "white flight" for instance to NI from the rest of the UK).

    I'm always interested in the double standard too, there's total freedom of movement for capital, total freedom of movement for the transglobal capitalist class too, if only because they own hotels, golf courses and other elite investments globally, these places can and do function something like embassies.

    Pragmatically and practically I think entirely open borders can cause so many problems unintentionally and leave so many other problems unchecked that it would make for bad policy. Its for this reason that I support military interventionism by either the global community or, usually since its hegemon and has historically developed its military while other states had other projects like health and welfare, the US.

  9. #29
    meat popsicle r.a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Arpaio is too busy torturing petty thieves for stealing bubble gum, than to do anything about West Phoenix.
    yep. he's worthless. the situation needs a real and dramatic solution.
    "All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is destructive and evil. Leaders destroy the followers and the followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."
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    J.Krishnamurti

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by r.a View Post
    i happen to be latino and also personally know female coyote victims, and some of my dearest friends are illegals. i've heard every variation of the story presented in the article. there are thousands of stories just like it, happening every day. yes yes, human right violations indeed. whatcha gonna do about it?

    i am for taking action on this. the liberal responses from concerned white people around the rest of the country are understandable. it shouldn't have to be like this. but it is.

    i'm open to better ideas. but right now, we need to police the fuck out of the borders. trust me, i hate police as much as the next person with an exotic name who has personally experienced grossly unnecessary racially-based police brutality. but shit is OUT OF HAND. not just with human trafficking, but drug cartels and fucking GANGS armed to the teeth and ready for war. go to west phoenix and see for yourself. crying about it won't fix anything.

    if it actually works and most of the trash is taken out, i am all for opening up our borders again. i'd love for my friends who are illegally here to live without fear of persecution.

    but you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet if no-one else has better ideas.
    Okay. I see what you are saying. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

    I was actually talking to a friend about this just today: how do you let the decent people - average citizens - in and keep the destructive people - drug dealers, gangs, violent persons - out? That's the problem, and you are right to point this out to me.

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