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  1. #11
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    Oh, I did read the article alright. It's nothing but sensationalist bullshit.

    Oh spare some sympathy for the poor pollos. Here, let me play you a song on the world's smallest violin. And now, they're not complaining about deportation. How nice. Maybe they should come to the realization that they'd be better off not coming to the US illegally in the first place. The queue's backed up by 16 years? Immigration policy unfair to Mexicans? Oh, too bad, so sad. The US doesn't want them--and rather than try to keep getting in, they need to get the message and know where they're not wanted.

    No company is mandated to make an offer to every single applicant--nor should the US have to accept every single person who files for immigration.

    Tighten the border security, and discourage illegal immigration even further, and then maybe we won't have these "well what were you expecting" stories appear.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    These people are clearly desperate if they're putting themselves in that position in the first place.
    No shit Sherlock. It's still foolish for one to think a coyote would get them anywhere safely.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Oh, I did read the article alright. It's nothing but sensationalist bullshit.

    Oh spare some sympathy for the poor pollos. Here, let me play you a song on the world's smallest violin. And now, they're not complaining about deportation. How nice. Maybe they should come to the realization that they'd be better off not coming to the US illegally in the first place. The queue's backed up by 16 years? Immigration policy unfair to Mexicans? Oh, too bad, so sad. The US doesn't want them--and rather than try to keep getting in, they need to get the message and know where they're not wanted.

    No company is mandated to make an offer to every single applicant--nor should the US have to accept every single person who files for immigration.

    Tighten the border security, and discourage illegal immigration even further, and then maybe we won't have these "well what were you expecting" stories appear.
    Your sense of entitlement is palpable.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Clearly the market for entry into the US leaves much to be desired. I bet if I was trying to get across the border I would have to do some research, because being raped and robbed just doesn't sound very good at all.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I have a friend who taught rich children in Mexico City for two years. She said the rich people in Mexico are so incredibly wealthy that it's mind boggling. Then there are these people living in abject poverty who are desperate to come here. It's the Mexican government's fault, but for us to turn our head doesn't seem very humane. These people are going to keep trying to get in. Do you really blame them?
    The US government has had a hand in this, too. Drug prohibition has lead to in increase in corruption in Latin America. We've also contributed to political instability by overthrowing governments that weren't friendly to US corporations (see Guatemala). We've been a bad neighbor.

    Rather than patrolling the border more diligently, I'd rather see conditions in Latin American countries improve so that fewer people are driven to take such desperate measures. When people are desperate, human trafficking thrives.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #16
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The US government has had a hand in this, too. Drug prohibition has lead to in increase in corruption in Latin America. We've also contributed to political instability by overthrowing governments that weren't friendly to US corporations (see Guatemala). We've been a bad neighbor.

    Rather than patrolling the border more diligently, I'd rather see conditions in Latin American countries improve so that fewer people are driven to take such desperate measures. When people are desperate, human trafficking thrives.
    Bingo.

    It's funny, three years ago when I joined this site, we didn't get along at all.
    We've both drifted to unison. Cool.

    I'll just add a +1

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    First and foremost, though, these things won't ever really get better until condtions in the home countries of these immigrants get better. In the mean time, I reckon loosening our policy on immigrants, rather than tightening it, would reduce these problems.
    Yes and No.

    I agree that improved conditions in those countries could disincentivise the population flight but there are still going to people who are easily duped and human trafficking isnt simply a matter of duping people who want to illegally immigrate either, sometimes it involves kidnap, rape, extortion, indentured labour and other rackets which finally end in the present days equivalent of slavery.

    For the record I've not read the article, I have read a lot about human trafficking though, its a topic which interests me because I think it is how enduring hard nosed evil can be, capitalism, socialism, welfare, human rights, none of those things have managed to undermine or root it out entirely and it adapts and adjusts itself to each very well.

    There's stories from the old soviet union of entire coach loads of people who where disappeared by bandits or mafia promising escape to the "free world", one which stands out in my mind involved people being taken down a passage in a cave and told to grip a metal railing in the wall, the cave floor was wet or water logged and when they had travelled down a bit the traffickers would electrocute the railing. A lot of people where killed, some which had successfully negotiated their way through other states up until that point. They told the individuals that they had to hand over any weapons as western authorities discovering these would have them jailed or executed as foreign terrorists or spies.

    Dont know if it was true and it could be a horror story like The Shuttle is of western contemporary kidnap trafficking but it sort of typifies the behaviour I think.

    Trafficking and illegal immigration are seperate issues, they have cross overs but they arent the same thing, the UK has created a domestic terror threat by confusing illegal immigration and refugee or asylum seeking by political islamists persecuted by foreign governments they wish to over throw. There's no doubt that many of them ARE facing unfavourable or persecutory conditions if they are deported but can a national government really be responsible for the actions of foreign governments?

    I'm waiting for the eventual absurdity of a US killer claiming asylum in the UK to avoid execution in the US.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The US government has had a hand in this, too. Drug prohibition has lead to in increase in corruption in Latin America. We've also contributed to political instability by overthrowing governments that weren't friendly to US corporations (see Guatemala). We've been a bad neighbor.

    Rather than patrolling the border more diligently, I'd rather see conditions in Latin American countries improve so that fewer people are driven to take such desperate measures. When people are desperate, human trafficking thrives.
    Drug prohibition? What about Iran-Contra? The Company bankrolled many a black op with drug money.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Drug prohibition? What about Iran-Contra? The Company bankrolled many a black op with drug money.
    My list wasn't comprehensive. I bet we could make a list pages long of all the things the US has done to exacerbate this problem.

    To me, it just seems insane to spend money enforcing a policy which causes lots of other problems to pop up, which forces us to spend more money policing those problems too.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    My list wasn't comprehensive. I bet we could make a list pages long of all the things the US has done to exacerbate this problem.

    To me, it just seems insane to spend money enforcing a policy which causes lots of other problems to pop up, which forces us to spend more money policing those problems too.
    Its a difficult question, if you took the objective impact of policing and law enforcement even of law itself in preventing or reducing crime or problem behaviour you'd just become resigned to each. A lot of people would be out of work too.

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