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  1. #11
    morose bourgeoisie
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    At least you live in country that allows you the option of voting, for or against those in authority. Governments aren't all bad, or always bad. There is always an ebb and flow, toward and away from policies that you as an individual agree with.
    Having said that, I can't say that I disagree with much of what you wrote. The human tendency to excude, to pursue short term profit at the expense of the greater society or the environment, is something that others (such as yourself) must fight against in order to maintain that balance of power. Without that balance, the forces you mentioned will overgrow like weeds. such a thing is already threatening in the USA.

  2. #12
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    My book, well it'll probably take a while.
    I'm having huge problems with getting all the ideas I get all the time out of my head so that others can understand what the hell I mean.

    If I ever manage, it'll probably convert a few to become quite chaotic, though.
    Not necessarily evil, mind you. I still advocate a great many moral guidelines.
    Although, laws against drugs and killing people are just there to ensure that the workforce doesn't make itself inefficient, decimate itself or kill its oppressors.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    My book, well it'll probably take a while.
    I'm having huge problems with getting all the ideas I get all the time out of my head so that others can understand what the hell I mean.

    If I ever manage, it'll probably convert a few to become quite chaotic, though.
    Not necessarily evil, mind you. I still advocate a great many moral guidelines.
    Although, laws against drugs and killing people are just there to ensure that the workforce doesn't make itself inefficient, decimate itself or kill its oppressors.
    Not sure about that one dude, workforce could be way more efficient if companies could mandate workers taking stims to save on sleep or kill unproductive dead weight members of the economy.

    Which I'm lead to believe actually happens in some of the free market zones of China.

    Do you think you'll revert to socialism if this anarchist trip ends? Just so you know its kind of what I did.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Oh, I know.
    I have just realized gradually that this pretty much gives me no moral obligation towards society, whatsoever.
    You still have to pick your side. And as long as you pick your side, you may as well work for it.

  5. #15
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Oh, I know.
    I have just realized gradually that this pretty much gives me no moral obligation towards society, whatsoever.
    Do you have a moral obligation to other humans? To the innocent?

    What is your 'code'?

  6. #16
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Oh, I know.
    I have just realized gradually that this pretty much gives me no moral obligation towards society, whatsoever.
    Just realize that at that point, the consequences start to become nasty. And I do mean nasty.

  7. #17
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Not sure about that one dude, workforce could be way more efficient if companies could mandate workers taking stims to save on sleep or kill unproductive dead weight members of the economy.

    Which I'm lead to believe actually happens in some of the free market zones of China.

    Do you think you'll revert to socialism if this anarchist trip ends? Just so you know its kind of what I did.
    Point taken. Depends on how advanced the work is, though.
    Most people don't perform well under the influence.

    Well, judging that I had my socialism trip for 15 years or so, this will probably be longer, since it's more logically and emotionally motivated.
    I'm not even sure socialism is second-best anymore. I can sympathize with it, though.
    I sure as hell don't like the neo-liberal right wing.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  8. #18
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Do you have a moral obligation to other humans? To the innocent?

    What is your 'code'?

    Oh, the innocents are safe with me. I'm good-natured.
    Probably more than you'd ever guess.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  9. #19
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    There's only one big difference: the State is subject to the same law his citizens are, while criminal organizations are not subject to the same "law" they impose on people under their feud. Which basically means that anyone acting on behalf of the state can be rightfully imprisoned if his actions violate the law, while such a thing cannot in any form be said for a criminal organization's feud.

    Of course, it can be debated how much this theorethical difference can be applied to real-life: many heads of state can break a good number of laws and get away with it, thanks to their power. So, basically I'm only referring to "advanced democracies" when I talk about the State in the previous paragraph. A typical dictatorship is basically equal to a criminal organization. Something similar would also be valid when we consider a given nation invading another nation: in that case the invader is no different from, say, a terrorist organization (although the results of the invasion might actually be "good" on the long term - still, any form of war is not logically justifiable, in terms of law).
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #20
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    There's only one big difference: the State is subject to the same law his citizens are, while criminal organizations are not subject to the same "law" they impose on people under their feud. Which basically means that anyone acting on behalf of the state can be rightfully imprisoned if his actions violate the law, while such a thing cannot in any form be said for a criminal organization's feud.

    Of course, it can be debated how much this theorethical difference can be applied to real-life: many heads of state can break a good number of laws and get away with it, thanks to their power. So, basically I'm only referring to "advanced democracies" when I talk about the State in the previous paragraph. A typical dictatorship is basically equal to a criminal organization. Something similar would also be valid when we consider a given nation invading another nation: in that case the invader is no different from, say, a terrorist organization (although the results of the invasion might actually be "good" on the long term - still, any form of war is not logically justifiable, in terms of law).
    Which is why I think the debate is almost irrelevant.

    Don't ask if the power structure is arbitrarily legitimate or illegitmate. Rather, analyze whether or not its instutions are condusive to the good of the people that it encompasses.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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