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  1. #81
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    The best answer I ever saw to that question is the essay "Yes, You Are," quoted below in part:

    Above, the dictionary definition of feminism — the entire dictionary definition of feminism. It is quite straightforward and concise. If you believe in, support, look fondly on, hope for, and/or work towards equality of the sexes, you are a feminist.
    I do, but, I am most certainly not.
    I'm no more a "feminist" than I am a "masculinist".
    If I am anything, I am an "anti-sexist"...
    I would enjoy hearing an explanation as to why a supposed doctrine of equality is named after one sex rather than both or neither.
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  2. #82
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    I like my sex slaves to be my equals. What does that make me?

  3. #83
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    The sexual differences are empirically measurable, while gender differences are socially created, much like how identities are socially created.
    Yes.

    Even so, "Natural gender" makes perfect sense, seeing as everything within the natural universe is, by definition, natural. Even social constructs and synthetic materials.
    I was never arguing semantics for the word "natural". You are not addressing your own point that you yourself brought up through the link - "natural gender". Emphasis on the word "gender" not "natural". If you can understand why the emphasis is on the former word, you'll understand why the latter word is called into question as an irrelevant point. For further explanation, see my response to eagle7 below.

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    Do you deny that the male body is optimized for hunting and combat?

    Do you deny that the female body is optimized for childbirth and rearing?


    Thanks to technology, we no longer need to follow these roles for survival, but I don't see how any gender-studies-professor can deny that our genetics have predisposed us to these roles?
    It's not about whether we are predisposed to these roles or not. We're leaving behind the influence that nature provided us with, and jumping moreso into the realm of nurture. In most human socieities, this means socialization. And, beyond women being able to birth children, whereas men cannot, the manifestations of our sex roles are called another name: gender roles. There's quite a variety in the manifestation of gender roles across societies in this world. And, added to that, it is not a black/white turnover. It's a process. Process of socialization.

    So, truly, what is NATURAL gender?

    What is the Golden Standard? What is the operational definition of (1) NATURAL female gender, and (2) NATURAL male gender?

  4. #84
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbows View Post
    She's a very outspoken feminist.
    Yes.

    She wrote this book, "The Beautiful Boy" Later Changed to just "The Boy"
    Don't agree nor relate to this aspect of her thoughts.

    And She talks about Steve Irwin here -

    The animal world has finally taken its revenge on Irwin, but probably not before a whole generation of kids in shorts seven sizes too small has learned to shout in the ears of animals with hearing 10 times more acute than theirs, determined to become millionaire animal-loving zoo-owners in their turn.
    Agree with her there. And, chuckle a bit at her expression of the thought.

    ***

    But, at the end of the day, a "good" or "bad" person checklist is not what makes me like (or dislike) a feminist writer. It's what their views are on feminism and if parts of their thoughts resonate with me and my personal outlook and/or if they allow me to re-evaluate an outlook of mine. I.e., allow me to think more critically.

  5. #85
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmhmm View Post
    i read gloria steinem. and then i read betty friedan.
    steinem is more digestable. i dig her. it must be a smith thing.

    smith chicks are awesome.
    At least it's not judith butler....i love her theory on gender performativity, but she's impossible to read.
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  6. #86
    Ginkgo
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    Nature and nurture is a false dichotomy. Nurture occurs within nature and abides by natural law. So does gender.

  7. #87
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I can only sympathize. If I were to encourage women to do anything, I would encourage them to pursue their personal goals and for others not to hold them back unless they were planning to divide and conquer.
    B-but, I was going to become the most ruthless dictator this world has ever known ...
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #88
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    This is sad. The physical beating thing. I think men do this for both sexual and gender-roll(ish?) reasons.

    We have laws against this in Western society, it's just a shame that these women feel too paralyzed to speak up if they are continually being beaten. Then again, there are also women who play mind-games with their partners, to the point of the men becoming emotionally abused. I'm wondering both forms of abuse happen. Do women feel that they're obligated to be subservient? Does it keep them there?

    I am reminded of the sexism in Hip-Hop culture.
    Issues that still pose significant hurdles:

    - policy to practice

    - socioeconomic status

    - education

    - generations of cultural socialization

    - systemic socialization [i.e., years and years of what is unchallenged as "norm", thus, resistant to change, even in the face of blatant inequality and discrimination]

    [to just start you off with a few.....]

    A baby is born with a vagina and called female. Through the influence of the world around her, her society, her family, her peers, her community, her experiences - she grows to learn her identity of what it means to be a woman in her society. With that she starts to form an identity around "allowable"/"not allowable" -> "doable"/"not doable" -> "dreamable"/"not dreamable". And, all because she started off with a vagina, which set her course in a distinctly different direction than her male counterpart. This is a truth, even in Western society.

    Problems, marginalizations, barriers, expectations, that arises as direct influence due to the difference between the two courses, when looked at from the viewpoint of the woman, is the lens of feminism.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    B-but, I was going to become the most ruthless dictator this world has ever known ...
    You can't become a ruthless dictator if you are so sensitive to such a simple task as walking. You are likely less callous than most people because you are a woman; and women, on average, have a higher abundance of nerve endings in their bodies. However, you could take of Thai kickboxing, kick a bamboo chute for hours each day until you become numb like a child is desensitized to commercials about fruit snacks and oscar meyer weeners.

  10. #90
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    You can't become a ruthless dictator if you are so sensitive to such a simple task as walking. You are likely less callous than most people because you are a woman; and women, on average, have a higher abundance of nerve endings in their bodies. However, you could take of Thai kickboxing, kick a bamboo chute for hours each day until you become numb like a child is desensitized to commercials about fruit snacks and oscar meyer weeners.
    Eh, no, I have plenty of callouses, you need to look at the torture devices women call shoes sometime.

    The problem is less the feet and more the breath. Then again, we have precedence for ruthless rulers with breathing problems. Look at Darth Vader.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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