User Tag List

First 67891018 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 195

  1. #71
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    All females who feel/have ever felt that they should be subservient to their male partners, or males in general, please say so now.

  2. #72
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    1,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    All females who feel/have ever felt that they should be subservient to their male partners, or males in general, please say so now.
    Me. Not anymore though, and only because of fucked up raising.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  3. #73
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mmhmm View Post
    i read gloria steinem. and then i read betty friedan.
    steinem is more digestable. i dig her. it must be a smith thing.

    smith chicks are awesome.
    I'd be interested to know what you think of Germaine Greer, if you get the chance.

  4. #74
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    1,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I'd be interested to know what you think of Germaine Greer, if you get the chance.
    You know she made a point to say that Steve Irwin deserved to die right?
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  5. #75
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    I did not know that.

    But what's it got to do with feminism?

  6. #76
    Cat Wench ReadingRainbows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx/sp
    Socionics
    IEI Ni
    Posts
    1,899

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I did not know that.

    But what's it got to do with feminism?
    She's a very outspoken feminist.

    She wrote this book, "The Beautiful Boy" Later Changed to just "The Boy"



    The Beautiful Boy[1] is a book, ISBN 0-8478-2586-8, by Germaine Greer, published in 2003. Its avowed intention was "to advance women's reclamation of their capacity for and right to visual pleasure". It is a study of the youthful male face and form, from antiquity to the present day, from paintings and drawings to statuary and photographs.

    The book contains some 200 pictures of boys through the ages, and is a history of boys in art. Pictures and discussions range from Cupid to Elvis, Boy George, Kurt Cobain, and Jim Morrison.

    The book generated some controversy because "society is not accustomed to seeing beauty in young males", Greer claims. Greer has described the book as "full of pictures of 'ravishing' pre-adult boys with hairless chests, wide-apart legs and slim waists". She goes on to say that, "I know that the only people who are supposed to like looking at pictures of boys are a subgroup of gay men," she wrote in London's Daily Telegraph. "Well, I'd like to reclaim for women the right to appreciate the short-lived beauty of boys, real boys, not simpering 30-year-olds with shaved chests."She was criticized for these comments with some writers labeling her a paedophile.
    Source : The Beautiful Boy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And She talks about Steve Irwin here -

    'The animal world got its revenge' - National - smh.com.au

    The animal world has finally taken its revenge on Irwin, but probably not before a whole generation of kids in shorts seven sizes too small has learned to shout in the ears of animals with hearing 10 times more acute than theirs, determined to become millionaire animal-loving zoo-owners in their turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    St. Stephen took rocks and St. Sebastian took arrows. You only have to take some jerks on an internet forum. Nut up.

  7. #77
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    1
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    932

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    I admit, I only glanced through the majority of posts in this thread.
    Fair enough, the thread is moving pretty quickly. I'm sure i'll be rather behind once i get this thing posted.

    Still, now that we have a baseline, am I to assume that you oppose bullshit constructs like "man law" and "sex in the city" ?
    Yes, essentially. I think such things make both demographics look pretty fucking stupid and one dimensional if you ask me. There are a lot more to gender roles than who raises children and who hunts, especially in a society which has evolved out of that.

    i like to muse on are the standards of beauty like fashion, physique, makeup etc. in men and women because it's in areas like this where unstable social expectations can easily be observed. one example is makeup; in this culture we encourage women to wear makeup and dress flamboyantly, while it's pretty socially unacceptable for men to do the same. However there's no debating that in other cultures, like Ancient Egypt, this is nothing inherently female about makeup or dressing up.

    I have heard feminists argue that women will never truly be liberated until they are no longer burdened by motherly instinct...a position I found particularly disgusting.
    I'm not sure how i feel about this, but i think it may be a wording problem. Let me try to explain my position. biologically yes, women are built to give birth to children. There's no argument there; it's an instinct. There's nothing wrong about that.

    However there are social expectations attached that extend these gender roles into the realm of "gender obligations"; for example the instinct to have children, compared to others my age, is non-existent. i have no desire to raise a family as I would much rather make a career out of assisting members of my local and global community. However i still have to be concerned with societal pressures trying to dissuade me from pursuing a life career instead of eventually settling down and having a family..ie members of my family, friends, potential partners...anyone I might be discussing the topic with. It then becomes a role which a woman becomes obligated to fulfill, even if there isn't necessarily a desire to do so. i would probably word this quote that "women will never truly be liberated until they are no longer burdened by motherly expectations".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Gender roles are stereotypes. While they are synthetic, they are still derived from observed phenomena. While they do not objectively depict observed phenomena, they still have a curve of truth to them.
    Mmm i'm more inclined to think that it's the other way around. I feel like the fact that such gender roles are so unstable are a pretty good indicator that they are synthetically derived and are enforced and re-enforced by observed phenomena. I think the media plays a pretty prominent role in both, myself. Gender studies calls such tactics "gender coding", and the process starts from the moment a child is born.

    This also does not excuse social sanctions that can be imposed on those who do not conform.

    Honestly, I think that women hold themselves back quite often by implying that they are discriminated against, much like how people of ethnicities other than Caucasian hold themselves back by making themselves look foolish by playing the race card. Women hamper their own success all the time, and it's not due to the fact they're women. We have laws against discrimination all over the board. Sometimes, the complaints from women are simply a matter of psychological projection, taking their own insecurities and then plastering them all over "society" as if we're a fascist patriarchy or something.
    I'd like to see some numbers to back this up, as i'm not convinced that women and minorities crying "wolf" is as common as you are implying. Of course it happens, i've seen it too and it's certainly frustrating, but i don't doubt that there are plenty of legitimate situations that get dismissed as "playing the gender/race card" too.

    Just because there are laws against discrimination doesn't mean that it covers all areas of discrimination, or that there aren't loopholes, or that people in more priviliged positions disregard them or fail to understand how their behaviour might not be seens as acceptable to others. One of the more hilarious male responses I've heard to women's complaints of sexual harassment includes, "well what are they complaining about, i'd love it if I were to be sexually harassed more often!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    All females who feel/have ever felt that they should be subservient to their male partners, or males in general, please say so now.
    I have certainly felt this pressure, yes. This extends to familial pressure as well as pressure I felt from men exerting this kind of pressure as well. It's a very strong and demoralizing feeling of "your desires/opinions are not as important as mine". I call it bulldozing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Introverted Feeling (46.7)
    Extraverted Intuition (45.7)
    Introverted Intuition (37.5)
    Introverted Thinking(26.5)
    Extraverted Feeling (25.4)
    Extraverted Thinking (22.1)
    Extraverted Sensing (19.5)
    Introverted Sensing (17.0)



  8. #78
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,536

    Smile Feminism and Power

    Feminism is an analysis of power and in particular patriarchal power.

    And patriarchal power, like all power, tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    And patriarchal power has been institutionalised and so becomes invisible and we take it for granted.

    So patriarchal power is taken for granted by all - men, women and children.

    So the historical task of feminism is to change the power structure from within.

    Fortunately our society is moving from an external based society to an internal based society; from a literate, authoritarian society to an electronic, helping society.

    Our very form of child rearing is changing from the authoritarian mode to the helping mode.

    And as we move more and more to the helping mode of child rearing, the feminine values come to the fore, such as empathy, creativity and presence.

    The strong silent man is passé, and the articulate empathic woman is present on our TV screens every day.

    Feminism is a force that cannot be denied. And we see evidence of this every day. Just the other day Kirsty sued David Jones, our upmarket Department Store, for 37 million for sexual harassment.

    And we have sent muslim men, who believed Islam gave them the right to rape infidel women on our streets, to prison for a very long time.

    Feminism is as important to us as the abolition of slavery. They are both milestones of liberal democracy.

    Liberal democracy is about the limitation of power, and in particular, the limitation of power over women.

  9. #79
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    The problem is that men and women are simply not equal in value.

    Women are far more valuable. A man will go through as many spermatozoa in a week as a woman will produce ova in a lifetime. That's the nugget of capital-T Truth that humanity is built around, and we cannot accurately look at human relations outside this scope.

    That's why the function of every successful society thus far has been to protect women, both from the men of other societies and from the predatory men within.
    The problem with arguments like this is that in our society, people's value does not come solely from their reproductive status. It's very interesting that a woman produces X number of ova in her lifetime and a man produces that many sperm in a week. What does that mean to any individual, though? Suppose a woman has decided not to have children. Why should her value still be tied to her reproductive status?

    And the same goes for men- why is a man's value tied to the number of sperm he produces or his upper-body strength, and not his other qualities as a human being? Suppose there's a couple, and between the two of them, the man is the more nurturing and easygoing one, so they decide she will be the breadwinner and he will stay home with the children? Why is he not valued higher because he's the one who is more instrumental in guiding the children on a day-to-day basis?
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #80
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Germaine Greer:

    "In 1970 the movement was called 'Women's Liberation' or, contemptously, 'Women's Lib'. When the name 'Libbers' was dropped for 'Feminists' we were all relieved. What none of us noticed was that the ideal of liberation was fading out with the word. We were settling for equality. Liberation struggles are not about assimilation but about asserting difference, endowing that difference with dignity and prestige, and insisting on it as a condition of self-definition and self-determination. The aim of women's liberation is to do as much for female people as has been done for colonized nations. Women's liberation did not see the female's potential in terms of the male's actual; the visionary feminists of the late sixties and early seventies knew that women could never find freedom by agreeing to live the lives of unfree men. Seekers after equality clamoured to be admitted to smoke-filled male haunts. Liberationsits sought the world over for clues as to what women's lives could be like if they were free to define their own values, order their own priorities and decide their own fate.
    The Female Eunuch was one feminist text that did not argue for equality."

Similar Threads

  1. I'm trying to supply my friend who knows nothing of MBTI with some material
    By swordpath in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-19-2011, 04:23 PM
  2. A word to those who are offended...
    By TickTock in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-07-2010, 03:32 PM
  3. To those who care
    By 527468 in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 05-05-2009, 05:39 PM
  4. Replies: 77
    Last Post: 02-27-2008, 01:27 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO