User Tag List

First 4567816 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 195

  1. #51
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    5&4 sx
    Socionics
    INFj
    Posts
    1,232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    i consider myself more of a gender-abolitionist feminist, so "feminism" and ideas of equality is a little different to me. My major in school concerns the social construction of gender (and sexuality) and through my studies I have come to question what it means in any culture to be a "man" or "woman", and the social rewards for adhering to these evolving social constructs. I do have some problems with the term feminism because it adheres to a gender binary that doesn't necessarily exist in the natural sense, though I currently cannot offer solutions to this misnomer and feel that there are larger issues at hand anyway.
    I've been told that I'm more of a cultural feminist, though I've yet to explore what that actually means. I don't believe I'm a gender abolitionist, at least not totally. I question what is "masculine" and what is "feminine" (two terms that are socially constructed) instead of what is a "man," what is a "woman" as I'm aware that there are some inherent differences in men and women.

    Both men and women, in this society, find themselves nurtured into gender roles that can be destructive and degrading, I think, especially for those who do not identify. Nuggets of wisdom like "big boys don't cry" say just as much to young boys as "act like a lady" says to young girls.
    Yep. I especially hate the "boys will be boys" sentiment. It's like "WTF!!!".

  2. #52
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Here's a study.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...nequality.html

    The problem is that statistical measurements only apply to large pools of people and not to individuals. There are plenty of women who would fill a "man's shoes" in areas of expertise where other men might fail miserably at. There are also men who bleed into filling rolls that women are stereotyped as being astute at, like teaching or linguistics. Men are, on average, more spatially perceptive while women are more verbal.
    I honestly don't have time to dissect that list, but, there's a lot of questions that are prompted from the studies that are alluded to on that list, and its seeming associations of significance.

    Not to mention that the title of the article itself calls its understanding on the topic into question. "Natural Gender"?

    Gender is a psycho-social term, sex is a physiological/biological term.

    Secondly, I still want to understand how this follow-up explanation of "empirically measured properties" connects to this post of yours:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I'm not talking about a Utopian society.

    Here's the misunderstanding - When you refer to equality, you are talking about the promotion of equal opportunity rights in a social sense.

    When I'm talking about equality, I'm talking about empirically measured properties.

    These definitions of equality are mutually exclusive. The problem with both feminist and anti-feminist arguments is thinking that they aren't mutually exclusive.

    Hence why both camps think that either equality or inequality= power.
    Given, what you say at the end of your last post:
    However, these differences are so marginal that thinking that one sex should bow to the other is ludicrous.

    Enforcing dominion over someone because they have better hand-eye coordination than you do is kind of a silly political struggle.

    So, are they or are they not "empirically measurable" properties?

  3. #53
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    468 sx/sp
    Socionics
    EII None
    Posts
    4,383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    The problem is that men and women are simply not equal in value.

    Women are far more valuable. A man will go through as many spermatozoa in a week as a woman will produce ova in a lifetime. That's the nugget of capital-T Truth that humanity is built around, and we cannot accurately look at human relations outside this scope.

    That's why the function of every successful society thus far has been to protect women, both from the men of other societies and from the predatory men within.
    What successful society is that? Disneyland?

    Violence Against Women - A Fact Sheet

    In the US, a woman is raped every 6 minutes; a woman is battered every 15 seconds. In North Africa, 6,000 women are genitally mutilated each day. This year, more than 15,000 women will be sold into sexual slavery in China. 200 women in Bangladesh will be horribly disfigured when their spurned husbands or suitors burn them with acid. More than 7,000 women in India will be murdered by their families and in-laws in disputes over dowries. Violence against women is rooted in a global culture of discrimination which denies women equal rights with men and which legitimizes the appropriation of women's bodies for individual gratification or political ends. Every year, violence in the home and the community devastates the lives of millions of women. (Broken Bodies, Shattered Minds: Torture and Ill Treatment of Women, Amnesty International, 2001)

  4. #54
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    1
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    932

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    I've been told that I'm more of a cultural feminist, though I've yet to explore what that actually means. I don't believe I'm a gender abolitionist, at least not totally. I question what is "masculine" and what is "feminine" (two terms that are socially constructed) instead of what is a "man," what is a "woman" as I'm aware that there are some inherent differences in men and women.
    I think that's more what I meant; gender = masculine and feminine, while sex = male and female, so I apologize for the ambiguous language. However as a result of some of my classwork and readings I'm almost inclined to be skeptical of the construct of "sex" as well though I'm not actually sure how i feel about this yet; i need more information. But considering many native americans divided both sex and gender up into 5 categories, i don't think it's that radical of a concept to explore. That and the current estimates I've read concerning children who are born within the 6 stages of intersexuality are about 1 in 3,000..not very high, but still higher than one might expect. When you consider how many of those children are actually "assigned" a gender, it's an interesting idea to toy with.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Introverted Feeling (46.7)
    Extraverted Intuition (45.7)
    Introverted Intuition (37.5)
    Introverted Thinking(26.5)
    Extraverted Feeling (25.4)
    Extraverted Thinking (22.1)
    Extraverted Sensing (19.5)
    Introverted Sensing (17.0)



  5. #55
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I honestly don't have time to dissect that list, but, there's a lot of questions that are prompted from the studies that are alluded to on that list, and its seeming associations of significance.

    Not to mention that the title of the article itself calls its understanding on the topic into question. "Natural Gender"?

    Gender is a psycho-social term, sex is a physiological/biological term.

    Secondly, I still want to understand how this follow-up explanation of "empirically measured properties" connects to this post of yours:



    Given, what you say at the end of your last post:



    So, are they or are they not "empirically measurable" properties?
    The sexual differences are empirically measurable, while gender differences are socially created, much like how identities are socially created.

    Even so, "Natural gender" makes perfect sense, seeing as everything within the natural universe is, by definition, natural. Even social constructs and synthetic materials.

  6. #56
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    3h50
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    4,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    What successful society is that? Disneyland?

    Violence Against Women - A Fact Sheet

    In the US, a woman is raped every 6 minutes; a woman is battered every 15 seconds. In North Africa, 6,000 women are genitally mutilated each day. This year, more than 15,000 women will be sold into sexual slavery in China. 200 women in Bangladesh will be horribly disfigured when their spurned husbands or suitors burn them with acid. More than 7,000 women in India will be murdered by their families and in-laws in disputes over dowries. Violence against women is rooted in a global culture of discrimination which denies women equal rights with men and which legitimizes the appropriation of women's bodies for individual gratification or political ends. Every year, violence in the home and the community devastates the lives of millions of women. (Broken Bodies, Shattered Minds: Torture and Ill Treatment of Women, Amnesty International, 2001)
    What's interesting is that I could dissect every one of those statistics, but I would just be accused of being callous and uncaring... because you're not allowed to be combative toward a woman if you're a man. It's just not permitted in our society, and any man who tries ends up looking worse for it. It's why Joe Biden had to get emotional in his debate with Sarah Palin - otherwise, he'd have just looked like a mean man beating up on the poor defenseless woman, which was the exact effect the Republicans were looking for.

  7. #57
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    331

    Default

    In my experience, feminism is the reason why women can openly mock men in the workplace, but men can be sued for mocking women.

    It would seem to me that third-wave feminism has less to do with equality, and more to do with dominance. Of course, I only have my personal experience to work with.

    ---

    I suppose this shift was inevitable, as mainstream society has adopted equality as a corporate value. When "the man" has become "the woman", what else is there for would-be feminist activists to do?

    It may surprise you, but those who commit violence against women also often commit violence against men. I don't see how emphasizing the women who are attacked will do anything to prevent violent people from being violent.

  8. #58
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    I suppose this shift was inevitable, as mainstream society has adopted equality as a corporate value. When "the man" has become "the woman", what else is there for would-be feminist activists to do?
    Dominate people of their own sex, which is something men have been doing since... yeah you get the picture.


  9. #59
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Dominate people of their own sex, which is something men have been doing since... yeah you get the picture.
    You mean to say that women are Homo sapiens too?

    Heretic!

  10. #60
    Ginkgo
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    You mean to say that women are Homo sapiens too?

    Heretic!
    You know, we used to burn witches here in the states because we thought that our sexual attraction toward females meant they were bewitching us. Those guileful harlots are making my parts levitate! BURN THE HERETICS!

Similar Threads

  1. I'm trying to supply my friend who knows nothing of MBTI with some material
    By swordpath in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-19-2011, 04:23 PM
  2. A word to those who are offended...
    By TickTock in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-07-2010, 03:32 PM
  3. To those who care
    By 527468 in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 05-05-2009, 05:39 PM
  4. Replies: 77
    Last Post: 02-27-2008, 01:27 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO