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  1. #41
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manis View Post
    Money is the wrong target, property is the problem.
    Property is a thing that we currently can mostly only obtain with money, be it fish or boats or any other thing of value, to own these things generally requires some sort of exchange.[...]

    The idea that you can own something and have complete control of it including the right to deny other people use of it (even if they need it more - hell, even if they need it to survive) has been elevated to the position of an absolute moral right in some people's minds. Any suggestion that there might be an alternative to this is quickly shot down with indignation and sarcasm, as amply demonstrated by some of the commenters here
    [...]To own something generally means that you've purchased it. The reason that a person doesn't have what your greedy owner does is because that first person lacks the ability to make an adequate exchange.

    Money is the exchange of property. In summary, to clean up what I'm trying to state, money is property. It is the very basic basis of ownership.

    Sorry, this probably sounds like I'm trying to politicise this thread. Please ignore the raving lefty.
    Har. Dly.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manis View Post
    Money is the wrong target, property is the problem. The idea that you can own something and have complete control of it including the right to deny other people use of it (even if they need it more - hell, even if they need it to survive) has been elevated to the position of an absolute moral right in some people's minds. Any suggestion that there might be an alternative to this is quickly shot down with indignation and sarcasm, as amply demonstrated by some of the commenters here

    Sorry, this probably sounds like I'm trying to politicise this thread. Please ignore the raving lefty.
    Three words: tragedy of commons.

    You get what you pay for. You provide a good or a service, and get something that you can use to trade for other goods and services. That's all money is--a means of easing the exchange between what you provide, and what you desire, into a universal medium of exchange.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danikov View Post
    Corporations have their own distinct set of laws that allows them to do some things that individual cannot. The fact that their adherence to those laws is based on economic decisions is how we can equate the two; the punitive measures for many laws that corporations break are entirely economical. Take Microsoft breaking anti-trust laws. They'll happily pay whatever it costs to break those laws if they think the result of doing so is earning them money. It just goes in the 'costs' column. As far as a corporation is concerned, legal issues are economic issues.

    Given that the corporation is a product of the capitalist system, I think it's safe to say there's something wrong. Maybe it's a perversion of capitalism and there's a better way, but the way we have now definitely isn't all right.
    Anti-trust laws just allow more people to stay in the game. I don't think they are really cardinal virtues or even morally correct themselves.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I had a curious insight today, namely: "wealth" = "options." When you can decide the course of your life based on a variety of choices, you are wealthy. When circumstances dictate the course of your life, you are poor. This is the chief utility in an abundance of money... it provides you with the freedom to make choices as you please, which is the real measure of wealth. And based on this measure, one can actually be poor despite abundant money or other possessions.
    I think you may be correct. A very rich uncle of mine once told me that the only thing money really buys you is freedom.

  5. #45
    XES 5231311252's Avatar
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    Money is neither necessary nor evil and I do believe there are better ways to trade goods.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Money is one of the more useful technologies humans have developed, an essential component of the superorganism that is society.

  7. #47
    Oberon
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    An old lady once told me "Money may not buy happiness... but it will keep a big pile o' troubles off your front porch."

  8. #48
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5231311252 View Post
    Money is neither necessary nor evil and I do believe there are better ways to trade goods.
    What better ways would you propose?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #49
    Member Manis's Avatar
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    Astounding.. the idea of any alternative to money just seems to wash over all these NTJs' heads. You lot are normally so on the ball too

  10. #50
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manis View Post
    Astounding.. the idea of any alternative to money just seems to wash over all these NTJs' heads.
    There's really none better yet. Energy accounting and other complex algorithmic planning techniques could plausibly supplant money eventually, but until then, we're stuck with it.
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