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  1. #11
    Junior Member Danikov's Avatar
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    That's an often misquoted line, by the Apostle Paul. The actual line is 'The love of money is the root of all evil' and there may be some truth to that.

    I think it's wrong to equate money with Capitalism. The problem with Capitalism isn't that it uses money, but that it puts money first. Large corporations embody this by being entities that are responsible primarily to their shareholders... or more basically, to their profit margins.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danikov View Post
    That's an often misquoted line, by the Apostle Paul. The actual line is 'The love of money is the root of all evil' and there may be some truth to that.

    I think it's wrong to equate money with Capitalism. The problem with Capitalism isn't that it uses money, but that it puts money first. Large corporations embody this by being entities that are responsible primarily to their shareholders... or more basically, to their profit margins.
    I think a better criticism of capitalism would be that it doesn't currently handle property ownership very well. It worked in the 18th and 19th century, but the system hasn't really changed much in the last few hundred years.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #13
    Junior Member Danikov's Avatar
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    I still think the principle of putting money first is unethical. It takes every single ethics problem and turns it into a legal issue- how much would it cost us to be unethical? How much would we profit from it? Do we have a net positive result?

    It basically puts a price on ethics and on human life itself. Everything becomes an element that effects a number that organisations try to maximise, regardless of the actual cost to individuals along the way. Just look at the amount of money that is put into advertising and media- it's more important to spin what you're doing, to be thought to be ethical, than to actually do so, because it's cheaper that way. It's a successful business model that's working for many very large companies, despite having to deal with vocal groups who oppose this behaviour. They have a big head start and all the cash in a system where money is power.

  4. #14
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danikov View Post
    I still think the principle of putting money first is unethical. It takes every single ethics problem and turns it into a legal issue- how much would it cost us to be unethical? How much would we profit from it? Do we have a net positive result?
    Your use of the word "legal' is very disheartening. Apparently law and economics theory has so dominated legal thought that people like yourself equate "legal" with law and economics.
    Take the weakest thing in you
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    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #15
    Junior Member Danikov's Avatar
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    Corporations have their own distinct set of laws that allows them to do some things that individual cannot. The fact that their adherence to those laws is based on economic decisions is how we can equate the two; the punitive measures for many laws that corporations break are entirely economical. Take Microsoft breaking anti-trust laws. They'll happily pay whatever it costs to break those laws if they think the result of doing so is earning them money. It just goes in the 'costs' column. As far as a corporation is concerned, legal issues are economic issues.

    Given that the corporation is a product of the capitalist system, I think it's safe to say there's something wrong. Maybe it's a perversion of capitalism and there's a better way, but the way we have now definitely isn't all right.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Money is evil, dangerous and immoral. Fortunately, I have the means to dispose of it if you send me yours.
    This sounds legit.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I actually think money's a pretty interesting concept, its only existed in its present shape and especially as a popular medium governing all interaction, or at least economic interaction and transfers, for a short time, a lot of pre-modern or even early modern economy, prior to capitalism winning out, wasnt monied, the guild economy wasnt, the serfs and peasantry wherent, the great estates wherent either.

    There's interesting alternative economic ideas based upon changes in money or monied relations, for instance what if money had an expiry date? Most things do have an expiration date, not so money.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Feops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    There's interesting alternative economic ideas based upon changes in money or monied relations, for instance what if money had an expiry date? Most things do have an expiration date, not so money.
    It sort of does that right now. The buying power of a given unit of currency gradually erodes owing to inflation. This discourages people from use hoarding money uselessly - they'll either invest it and recycle the wealth into the system, or buy things.

  9. #19
    Member Manis's Avatar
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    Good for some things, bad for others. I agree with Danikov that it is being terribly misused. Here in the UK we have discarded most of our primary and secondary industry in favour of a strong (ha!) financial sector that is highly profitably but totally unproductive. How does it help the world to sit on the nodes of commerce parasitically sucking up a portion of the wealth created by productive industries? Too much of our resources is wasted on shuffling numbers around. I'd love to find an alternative system but money is power and naturally, I'm broke X(

  10. #20
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    In short, yes it is necessary as a tool for managing exchange in a complex society.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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