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Thread: Money and Debt

  1. #1
    Senior Member WildCard's Avatar
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    Default Money and Debt

    To prevent any flame wars, this is a Christian view of how to handle your money. If the Bible offends you, please don't read any further. Keep your comments clean, please.

    **Warning: This is lengthy.**

    A Biblical View of Money
    1. Money isn't the problem, loving it is. "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves many pangs." (1 Timothy 6:10); "God has given wealth and possessions and power to enjoy them, and accept his lot and rejoice in his toil. This is the gift of God." (Ecclesiastes 5:19)

    2. Money can be good. "A rich man's wealth is his strong city; the poverty of the poor is their ruin." (Proverbs 19:17); "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." (1 Timothy 5:8); "Many seek the favor of a generous man, and everyone is a friend to the man who gives gifts. All a poor man's brothers hate him; how much more doe his friends go far from him! He pursues them with words, but does not have them." (Proverbs 19:6-7)

    3. Money can be dangerous.
    *We tend to make it an idol.
    *It is limited in what it can do. "Better is a dinner of herbs where love is than a fattened ox and hatred with it." (Proverbs 15:7); It can't give the ultimate satisfaction. "Sheol and Abaddon are never satisfied, and never satisfied are the eyes of man." (Proverbs 27:20)
    *Loving money leads to other sins. "But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs." (1 Timothy 6:9-10)
    *Money is temporary, not permanent. "Do not toil to acquire wealth; be discerning enough to resist. When your eyes light on it, it is gone, for suddenly it sprouts wings, flying like an eagle toward heaven." (Proverbs 23:4-5) "Riches do not profit in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death." (Proverbs 11:4); "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal." (Matthew 6:19)
    *Gaining money can lead to arrogance. "A rich man's wealth is his strong city, and like a high wall in his imagination."(Proverbs 18:11)
    *Money likewise breeds a false sense of security. "Whoever trusts in his riches will fall." (Proverbs 11:28)
    *Money is often the source of conflict among closest friends and in families. "Whoever is greedy for unjust gain troubles his own household." (Proverbs 15:27)

    4. Godly wisdom is more important than money.
    "Better is a little with the fear of the Lord than great treasure and trouble with it." (Proverbs 15:16); "Better is little with righteousness than great revenues with injustice." (Proverbs 16:8). "Better is a dry morsel with quiet than a house full of feasting with strife." (Proverbs 17:1); "Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity than a rich man who is crooked in his ways." (Proverbs 28:6); "How much better to get wisdom than gold! To get understanding is to be chosen rather than silver." (Proverbs 16:16) "A good name is to be chosen rather than great riches, and favor is better than silver or gold." (Proverbs 22:1)

    "The real measure of our wealth is how much we'd be worth if we lost all our money.

    5. Learn to be content. (We live for accumulation, NOT simplicity!)
    "Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment, for we brough nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content." (1 Timothy 6:6-8) "Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you." (Hebrews 13:5).

    The Biblical View of The Relationship between Man and Money.
    1. On Earning Money.
    *Obtain a skill and work hard.
    *Don't expect easy money or fall for "get-rich-quick" schemes.
    *Work hard to provide for your family.
    *Show integrity.

    Here are just a few ways in which we need to show integrity.
    1. Don't pursue money at the expense of family, worship, and rest.
    2. Don't deceive or defraud others.
    3. Don't exploit the weak or poor.
    4. Don't take advantage of others.
    5. Don't charge exorbitant interest.

    II. On Spending Money
    1. Give generously.
    2. Be generous to God.
    3. Control your spending.
    * Make a budget and stick with it.
    * Use a shopping list and avoid impulse buying.
    * Learn to resist the deal!
    * Don't live beyond your means; learn the differences between necessities and luxuries.
    * Don't try to buy things you don't really need to impress people you don't even like.
    * Don't get sucked into thinking that things will satisfy.
    * Follow four principles when you spend:
    1. Wisdom: Can I really use it? How much will I use it?
    2. Unselfishness: How can I use this purchase for God and others?
    3. Responsibility: Can I afford it? Doew it fit into my budget?
    4. Stewardship: Is this the best buy?


    4. Stay out of debt. Debt is rarely good, produces bondage.

    5. Wisely plan for the future, but don't presume upon the future.
    * Anticipate emergecies and future expenses.
    * Save and invest wisely.
    * Don't make yourself liable for others' debt by co-signing.

    Application:
    **Evaluate your life and your money.
    **Live to be free to give!

    Thoughts? Suggestions?
    Anything that you haven't fought for isn't going to be appreciated. It takes blood, sweat, and a large amount of tears before you appreciate what you have.

  2. #2
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Very good thoughts on morality and money management.

    I would offer to add:

    "Do not let your hard work and desire for the greater good at the societal level predispose your lifetime earning potential into becoming reduced in significant and on-going magnitudfe to create considerable profit for greedy capitalists that do not necessarily share your ecclesiasitical values."

    Remember, capitalism would most likely not exist were it not for the Protestant work ethic being expressed so prolifically in Western societies. And as nice as it is to have one's feet on the ground with regard to management of financial wealth, it is in my opinion, a fool's burden to work hard blindly. More clearly, working hard and hoping that you will be rewarded commensurately for your efforts in monetary salary is a pipe dream.

    Labor can be extracted from a human being; the labor of the human, and the human itself are divisible. Common people do not realize this, and if they do, few lobby on their own behalf to get the best bang for their buck with regard to what they get paid in accord for what work they do. Most people seem to shoot at jobs/careers with a certain median salary and hope for the best, ala a little luck and some politicking.

    Do not ever think that God will reqard you solely on your capacity to work hard and attempt contributiong to the greater good. God helps those who help themselves, and if you want your family to benefit from the fruits of your labors as much as the capitalist who arranged it all, then you had better get into the habit of lobbying on your own behalf as quickly as possible, and never stop doing it until the day you die...or retire if you are lucky.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

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    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    So no college? No assistance to children?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    So no college? No assistance to children?
    This has what to do with the topic?

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    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    This has what to do with the topic?
    Both of these things usually involve taking on debt or cosigning.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Just to add:

    "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mathew 19:24

    Jesus suggests here that not only that money corrupts but also that that a higher standard of behaviour is expected of the wealthy (ie. they have no excuses) and/or that the wealthy must work harder to be righteous.
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    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

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    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    This has what to do with the topic?
    I'm having difficulty figuring that out too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Just to add:

    "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mathew 19:24

    Jesus suggests here that not only that money corrupts but also that that a higher standard of behaviour is expected of the wealthy (ie. they have no excuses) and/or that the wealthy must work harder to be righteous.
    What a great contribution!

    I think it is possible to be wealthy and righteous. In the end, at the final judgement, it's all about how you lived your life, regardless of your level of wealth. A very important part of my plan if I were to become wealthy would be what to do with the money once I am gone. Taking care of my family is obviously going to be a huge priority, but investing for the greater good in one's absence must be done with extreme forethought and sound analysis. I wouldn't just dump my money into a charitable organization. My money would come with stipulations, as in a deliverables based contract of sorts.

    Righteous | Define Righteous at Dictionary.com

    right·eous
    [rahy-chuhs]
    –adjective
    1. characterized by uprightness or morality: a righteous observance of the law.
    2. morally right or justifiable: righteous indignation.
    3. acting in an upright, moral way; virtuous: a righteous and godly person.
    4. Slang . absolutely genuine or wonderful: some righteous playing by a jazz great.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

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    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    I think it is pretty good advice.

    The thing that's mentioned but underemphasized is saving and investing - the earlier you start, the better. Let compounding play to your favor.

    Also, I'm not sure about never co-signing for a loan. I wouldn't have been able to buy a car coming out of college if my parents hadn't helped me with that.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I think it is pretty good advice.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    The thing that's mentioned but underemphasized is saving and investing - the earlier you start, the better. Let compounding play to your favor.
    Yes indeed, as many online financial tools and age old professional monetary wisdom compel us to do. BUT - what if your paper portfolio deflates 40% in three shakes of a lamb's tail because the corrupt shite-heads in charge decided to fleece the market as they did over the last few years? Then alot of all that compounding just went up in smoke, literally, as the shredding party at Countrywide evolved into a bonfire...

    Basically what I'm getting at is to make sure that you REALIZE YOUR GAINS ALONG THE WAY and re-invest in diversified instruments that are as secure and liquid as possible. I'll never have only paper based securities in my portfolio again. I had a SEP IRA in the nineties that got up to $40,000 and the dot com crash turned it into $25,000 in a few short months. I was PISSED.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Also, I'm not sure about never co-signing for a loan. I wouldn't have been able to buy a car coming out of college if my parents hadn't helped me with that.
    Agreed, some rules are iron clad, but no rule speaks for all circumstances. God gave us free will, and I suspect that he expects us to use it as we try our best to do his good work here on Earth.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  10. #10
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Basically what I'm getting at is to make sure that you REALIZE YOUR GAINS ALONG THE WAY and re-invest in diversified instruments that are as secure and liquid as possible. I'll never have only paper based securities in my portfolio again. I had a SEP IRA in the nineties that got up to $40,000 and the dot com crash turned it into $25,000 in a few short months. I was PISSED.
    How about going from going to be worth over two million dollars (on paper) to becoming a thousandaire? That was a bit of an adjustment! Only good thing I got out of my dot com stock options was putting a friend through cooking school. He's a gainfully employed chef now, so I can't complain about the ROI.

    Definitely agree with realizing at least SOME of your gains as you go

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