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  1. #81
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    By definition you cannot. Profit means taking a commodity or piece of real property and selling it for a greater value than originally invested into it. You absolutely cannot profit off of something without selling it first.
    You're right in that sense. I wasn't very clear. I am saying that you can turn a profit by putting the land to use, instead of simply buying/selling. If I appropriate a tiny, four-acre scrap of previously unused land and plant, for instance, sweet potatoes I could spend less than 500usd on essential equipment and seed and earn between 10,000-15,000usd at local markets and I would call the 9,500-14,500 profit. I'm not a trained economist, though, so it may be called something else.(I only know these specific numbers because I was researching it earlier for a grant I'm applying for, which, btw I wouldn't need if certain forms of georgism were implemented, err....accepted)
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  2. #82
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    You're right in that sense. I wasn't very clear. I am saying that you can turn a profit by putting the land to use, instead of simply buying/selling. If I appropriate a tiny, four-acre scrap of previously unused land and plant, for instance, sweet potatoes I could spend less than 500usd on essential equipment and seed and earn between 10,000-15,000usd at local markets and I would call the 9,500-14,500 profit. I'm not a trained economist, though, so it may be called something else.(I only know these specific numbers because I was researching it earlier for a grant I'm applying for, which, btw I wouldn't need if certain forms of georgism were implemented, err....accepted)
    Those would be returns on capital investment . You've profited off of the seed, tools and other chattels that went into exploiting the land, but you haven't profited off the value of your interest in the land itself. You would once you built real improvements (like a house or other building that raises the property value beyond the cost of the improvement) or demonstrated the productivity of the land, thus allowing you to sell the land for beyond what you purchased it for.

  3. #83
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Yes, that's why I think property values are BS and that land should be taxed based on the land itself and not the things on top of the land, whether it be trees or homes or an outhouse. I also believe in homes made out of old shipping crates as long as they can be stacked. I don't think I fit in here.....
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  4. #84
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I would guess that there are a few people here who are really walking the socialist walk as well as talking the communal talk when it comes to deliberately choosing a lack of personal belongings as a lifestyle, and sharing as a matter of course. To these folks, I salute you.

    Others, particularly those who blame the wealthy for their own inability to get ahead, I see as hypocritical... they're not critiquing the materialism of the wealthy so much as they're pissed off that someone is better at playing the "possessions" game than they themselves are... and if the roles were reversed, they'd gladly let those dirty bastards eat cake.

    One thing: Wealth is not a zero sum game, not yet at least. We still have untapped natural resources and a considerable amount of waste worldwide... if we really wanted yet more stuff, we have the wherewithal to get it.

    With regard to my earlier comment to the effect that "Money always returns to its rightful owners," I stand by it. The rich are rich for reasons, and the poor are poor for reasons, and usually luck isn't a significant factor. However, many people have misjudged my point in making such a statement. I didn't mean to essentially say "Fvck the poor," as one of my high school teachers famously said to me. Rather, I meant to make the point that the cure to poverty (if there is one) lies not in redistribution of wealth, but in education.

    Give a person the skills and the awareness to get ahead, and he or she will do so. Enabling people to redistribute wealth for themselves is much more effective in the long term than doing it for them, and does much less violence to individual liberty.

    Which is my personal kind of crack, in case you didn't know... probably a result of reading too much sci-fi as a kid.
    Why you are so defensive?

  5. #85
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Rather, I meant to make the point that the cure to poverty (if there is one) lies not in redistribution of wealth, but in education.

    Give a person the skills and the awareness to get ahead, and he or she will do so. Enabling people to redistribute wealth for themselves is much more effective in the long term than doing it for them, and does much less violence to individual liberty.
    You're saying people can all get ahead to that great wealthy level if they earn it with education? Am I correct in understanding that?

    Because that would either mean everyone attains the careers that are currently rewarded with high profit, which would leave massive, unworkable holes in the country's workforce, or it would mean we'd have to start giving huge profit rewards to all the careers/professions/jobs that are currently very lowly paid. Or some mixture of the two.

    Both sound like completely futile ideas to entertain.

    The rich are rich for a reason. They are rich for numerous reasons. Study sociology. In the USA (and there are much worse places) one of the largest factors (if not the largest) in how wealthy you are as an adult is how wealthy your family was when you were born. So that, right off the bat, means your hypothesis is wrong anyway.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #86
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The rich are rich for a reason. They are rich for numerous reasons. Study sociology. In the USA (and there are much worse places) one of the largest factors (if not the largest) in how wealthy you are as an adult is how wealthy your family was when you were born. So that, right off the bat, means your hypothesis is wrong anyway.
    Or it means that people who know how to make and keep money tend to have children who know how to make and keep money... not a major stretch, your assertion notwithstanding.

  7. #87
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Why you are so defensive?
    Because my prior posts were attacked.

  8. #88
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Or it means that people who know how to make and keep money tend to have children who know how to make and keep money... not a major stretch, your assertion notwithstanding.
    Or have the social networks to bail them out if they ever screw up. Which they do, because everyone screws up once in a while.

  9. #89
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    The rich are rich for reasons, and the poor are poor for reasons, and usually luck isn't a significant factor.
    Actually, in most places of the world (even industrialized world) luck is by far the most significant factor: it determines which family you will be born into, which is usually the biggest predictor of wealth (not necessarily income) as an adult.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  10. #90
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Actually, in most places of the world (even industrialized world) luck is by far the most significant factor: it determines which family you will be born into, which is usually the biggest predictor of wealth (not necessarily income) as an adult.
    In other parts of the world this is true. I don't think it's the primary controlling factor in the US... or maybe it is, but avenues exist by which it can be overcome.

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