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  1. #71
    Senior Member LEGERdeMAIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    This was the original English system of land ownership. The King had sovereign title over all the lands in his domain, and granted estates in exchange for services. In other words, in exchange for doing something for the king, he would grant a tenant (i.e. one who holds) rights to a parcel of land for a year. The tenant would subinfeudate (divide the land) other vassals for other services, and so on down the chain.

    Problem is that this is very inefficient for selling interests in land. A freeholder couldn't just sell land; he would have to revert his title back to the granting mesne lord, and then the mesne lord would have to grant the title all over again to the second person. In other words, the person could not profit from improvements in the land. This changed with the Statute Quia Emptores in 1290, allowing alienability of interests in land.

    This is one of the major reasons capitalism developed in England and Great Britain before the rest of Europe - once a person could profit from improvements to land, there was greater incentive to utilize that land as efficiently as possible. As a result, enclosure became a common phenomenon in the ensuing centuries, and former peasants were driven off their common lands. Either they moved to the towns and cities (becoming villeins), or later, they came to the colonies, working as tenant farmers, mechanics, or merchants. The merchants benefited best from this system which allowed for profit.
    I'm not advocating a feudal system. I'm just pointing out that there really is no private property. Any government, any time can/has taken "private property" when they want a highway or a military base or a park or...........

    I'm just saying that within that framework a better system of land usage could be developed, whether it fits perfectly with the current quasi-capitalist economy we have in the US or not. You can make a profit from land without buying/selling it. I'll return to this later after I get back from work, where I'm selling my labor so I can eat next week.
    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I’m here to tell you that fast is better. I’ve always believed this, in spite of the trouble it’s caused me. Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba…”


  2. #72
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
    I'm not advocating a feudal system. I'm just pointing out that there really is no private property. Any government, any time can/has taken "private property" when they want a highway or a military base or a park or...........
    That's the extension of what I wrote. No one "owns" real property in the English system and its successors; that is, has an allodial interest in it. The best you can do is an interest in fee simple absolute, which means that you have absolute right to alienability. However, if you die without a will, and you have no legal heirs, then it reverts (escheats) back to the ownership of the state, because it ultimately has sovereign title over the property. It is from this that the state derives its eminent domain power. The Fifth Amendment only guarantees that the Feds will pay market value for the property it condemns. It already had the power under common law.

    I'm just saying that within that framework a better system of land usage could be developed, whether it fits perfectly with the current quasi-capitalist economy we have in the US or not.
    Have you ever studied Georgism? That seems to be what you're hinting at. If not, please look into it. It's actually a fairly reasonable means of wealth distribution, which of course is why no one has ever tried it.

    You can make a profit from land without buying/selling it.
    By definition you cannot. Profit means taking a commodity or piece of real property and selling it for a greater value than originally invested into it. You absolutely cannot profit off of something without selling it first.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    This wolf is right. No matter how amazing we make things today, our great-grandchildren will laugh at how pathetic our lifestyles, beliefs, and living conditions are.
    That's not always the case. I don't laugh at the way Native Americans lived 200 years ago - in fact, I respect it. I also respect various aspects of certain cultures from the past. I think it's ignorant to think of earlier cultures as "pathetic" because with all of the things you gain from moving forward, there are also good things that you lose.

    Speaking of Native Americans, many tribes didn't believe in land ownership - which is why some of my ancestors took in and helped the other side of my ancestors, and got taken advantage of and murdered and we all know the rest of the story - and they weren't socialists.

  4. #74
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I still think super-ebay is a great idea.
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  5. #75
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    That's not always the case. I don't laugh at the way Native Americans lived 200 years ago - in fact, I respect it. I also respect various aspects of certain cultures from the past. I think it's ignorant to think of earlier cultures as "pathetic" because with all of the things you gain from moving forward, there are also good things that you lose.

    Speaking of Native Americans, many tribes didn't believe in land ownership - which is why some of my ancestors took in and helped the other side of my ancestors, and got taken advantage of and murdered and we all know the rest of the story - and they weren't socialists.
    Perhaps pathetic is the wrong word. LIMITED would be more appropriate. A human body works at 75 watts, but today most of us have it well within our grasp to utilize MILLIONS of watts and few will ever see how significant that is, the vast amounts of energy under our control today will still be rendered insignificant in the long run. Quaint trinkets and simple lives, not pathetic, only immature and yet-to-be ripened.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Perhaps pathetic is the wrong word. LIMITED would be more appropriate. A human body works at 75 watts, but today most of us have it well within our grasp to utilize MILLIONS of watts and few will ever see how significant that is, the vast amounts of energy under our control today will still be rendered insignificant in the long run. Quaint trinkets and simple lives, not pathetic, only immature and yet-to-be ripened.
    I don't agree with simple lives being "immature." We're going to have to agree to disagree. While I appreciate the advantages of technology and medicine, I don't share your particular world view.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    I do tend to critique the primitive lifestyle rather harshly. Don't get me started on Thoreau.

  8. #78
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Perhaps pathetic is the wrong word. LIMITED would be more appropriate. A human body works at 75 watts, but today most of us have it well within our grasp to utilize MILLIONS of watts and few will ever see how significant that is, the vast amounts of energy under our control today will still be rendered insignificant in the long run. Quaint trinkets and simple lives, not pathetic, only immature and yet-to-be ripened.
    "For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much - the wheel, New York, wars and so on - whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man - for precisely the same reasons."

    - Douglas Adams

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    I do tend to critique the primitive lifestyle rather harshly. Don't get me started on Thoreau.
    Thoreau was a status-conscious sycophantic hack. So badly wanted to be with the cool intellectual group and is only remembered because he wrote a tacky book with a gimmicky concept.

    Sorry, Bear, couldn't help myself.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I like Thoreau and his writing but you are probably correct about both him and his books

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