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  1. #31
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Does that seem reasonable to you?

    On the other hand if you do this a logical and natural consequence is that you're run the risk of apprehension and then punishment, if that punishment involves incarceration with violent others then its a logical and natural consequence that you could be victimised by them.

    Pretty good incentive not to commit crimes but besides that logical and natural consequences of behaviour. I dont like paternalism run amok.
    No, it does not seem reasonable to me. it sounds like a scenario from the Wild West, when people gave their own form of retribution because the area was lawless. A lawful country enforces laws impartially. I'm not sure if you've ever been to a trial, or even a mock trial, but it's not about drama or morals. Nor is it even about calling someone "evil", like this thread goads about. It's about ethics and bureaucracy.

    The fact is that the incarceration should have been secure. It was not. Therefore, the incarcerated has every right to sue, as the security of a judicial structure is also a judicial matter. It's an officers duty to prevent prison fights and keep members separated if need be. In many prisons, there are numerous gangs and underworld affiliates who rival each other. They have conflict not only in the streets, but in the halls too.

    Many of the prisoners don't even belong to gangs. Some don't have any ties at all. Some may even be innocent (should innocents be the victim of random prisoner violence?). However, their reasons for being imprisoned are irrelevant from the issue.

    No one's defending pedophilia (remember, pedophilia and pedophiles are two separate entities, just like sodomy and homosexuality are two separate entities). I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread thinks that man should be imprisoned if he broke the law. But two unlawful acts don't make a lawful act.

    I'm still confused about how telling someone to ignore the Pope is supposedly sacrilegious.

    Also, please be explicit about whether you agree or disagree instead of asking me if I agree about my own sardonic representation of the kind of reasoning you are using. I don't know if the Irish treat their inmates the same way the U.S. does.

    Just because the legal system is often exploited doesn't mean that random people within it can impose their own moral agendas on it. That's not their responsibility.

  2. #32
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    Does anyone else find the use of the words "paternalism run amok" ironic in Lark's derisive comments about The State, even whilst defending The Pope?

    Okay...I'm gonna stop now...backing away from the thread slowly...beating a dead horse...blah blah blah.

  3. #33
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Justify why the reason a person is incarcerated would affect their right to have personal safety while in state care?

  4. #34
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Justify why the reason a person is incarcerated would affect their right to have personal safety while in state care?
    I don't want to. I don't think it should affect their right. Or am I playing devil's advocate? I'm confused.

  5. #35
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I don't want to. I don't think it should affect their right.
    T'was for Lark, he's the one claiming that, not you

  6. #36
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    T'was for Lark, he's the one claiming that, not you
    I knew that!

  7. #37
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    Justify why the reason a person is incarcerated would affect their right to have personal safety while in state care?
    Thank you.

    ****

    If the criminal justice system of a place is going to honour the code of throwing the barbarians in a pit together, and letting them finish each other off, then they would be perpetuating the very "barbaric acts" they take it upon themselves to punish their citizens for. They would themselves be an example of inhumanity. This would be hipocrisy on their part.

    Or.....

    The criminal justice system of a place has policies that protect the rights of the human individual, and has taken into consideration what [basic human] rights will be afforded to those who have committed criminal acts. Which includes protection by the govt/state.

    However, what the "moral" response to such a particular individual's fate would/should be is a very different case than discussing what should be adhered to due to the code of laws already in place for such matters in our justice system, regardless of individual. There's a reason Lady Justice is blind-folded.


    Objectivity in morality. What a thought.

    ****

    For some reason, I honestly don't expect the OP to get this distinction.

  8. #38
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I agree 100% with all of that- I still don't think it would be a bad idea for crimes of this magnitude, when the trial ends with a guilty verdict to also carry some kind of edict that any settlement the convicted criminal receives during the time of his incarceration should be at least shared with the victim or the victim's heirs.
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