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  1. #11
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    My point was obvious. You either get it, or your don't.

  2. #12
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Obviously rights are forfeited to some extent when one commits a crime... It's a matter of "to what extent".

  3. #13
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    They are.

    Rights are only static of they are upheld with consistency, but they are not. People circumvent the legal system frequently. Soon the circumventions actually become the legal system. Then we start all over again.
    I dont actually agree with this, I think people have very basic and inalienable rights, these are nothing like the supplanted rights and unreal expectations which exist in most constitutions and in most political constituencies today.

    These are rights which you possess and enjoy until some usurper or tyrant takes them away, whether its a street thug or a state.

    While I disagree with your idea about rights, I'm interested in what it means and I hope you're going to elaborate, is it conceiving of rights as congruent with trends and expectations, subject to change and conceptual degeneration and regeneration?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Obviously rights are forfeited to some extent when one commits a crime... It's a matter of "to what extent".
    I think they are completely forfeited, the law is necessarily there to protect the law abidding, not to present a lucrative money stream for shrewd and unscrupulous solicitors and their clients. :steam::steam::steam:

    Personally I think these kinds of things are complete God sends to libertarians because it makes any kind of enlarged state responsibility and provision of services fiscally no viable because all it does it provide for greater and greater liability to being sued and straight redistributions of tax payers money.

    It is also a God send to people supporting capital punishment/executions because it removes liability and provides satisfaction.

  5. #15
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Obviously rights are forfeited to some extent when one commits a crime... It's a matter of "to what extent".
    I think that people should be given a different set of rights when they are incarcerated. If it's his right to sue, then that should not be taken from him, even if his past actions were criminal or illegal. If people should not have the right to sue, then that should be explicitly stated within the law; but since it isn't, the system should be impartial. The man wasn't sentenced to have his throat slashed, or to be scalded by hot water. That's not part of the deal. He should have been secure.

    I feel like it's been a trend in American culture to inflict revenge on people by suing them. It becomes a personal vendetta. Thats what would be happening if the family sued him, but what would they be suing him for? He's already been in living hell, and he's still being punished.

  6. #16
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I think they are completely forfeited, the law is necessarily there to protect the law abidding, not to present a lucrative money stream for shrewd and unscrupulous solicitors and their clients. :steam::steam::steam:
    So, what - if I steal a CD from WalMart, then suddenly I am an outlaw, and anyone else, outlaw or not, is given a warrant to slice me up?

  7. #17
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    The man personally doesn't deserve a damn bit of compensation, IMO. Whether issues with security and supervision need to be addressed and people reprimanded or fired, that's another issue and one that might need to be looked at. I still think it's a joke that someone in his position would feel OK making them self appear as the victim. What a demented individual...

  8. #18
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I'm really glad I've got the people standing up for wounded peadophiles on ignore.
    It would be nice if people tried to actually understand another person's POV before publicly slandering their character. I haven't seen anyone in this thread who is "standing up for wounded pedophiles." What a crass thing to suggest.

    ... and note the (mis)spelling. Again.

    There have been some interesting cases here with rapists. Turns out some of them weren't guilty of the crime they were convicted of, after DNA tests could be done. Too bad, they spent 20+ years in jail already. I guess they're lucky they weren't executed by a lynchmob before they could be exonerated.

    I'm leery on mucking with due process because it puts everyone at risk. I guess it's easy to say it should be jettisoned, though, if you don't happen to be the accused... at least, until YOUR neck happens to be on the line.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #19
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    I think Lark just wants everyone to discuss the moral aspects of what is going on, assuming that the guy is in fact guilty and performed an act considered quit heinous. Talking about possibilities that have a high probably of not bearing on the reality of the situation is what I think he doesn't want to participate in. I think anyway. I guess Lark can make it clear if he wants.

    Morally speaking, if the guy is guilty and performed a heinous act similar to the one in Green Mile, then he doesn't deserve to reap any profit from going against the state. The only thing that might happen is that prisons are reformed for the better. But honestly for a crime such as his, there should be consideration over whether or not such people should even be put in prisons or just killed (or maybe at least given the choice to let the family kill him or put him in prison, whichever they decide over the other). That shit is probably ranking among the worst things someone can do to another person. They don't even get to go down at least fighting with some dignity; it makes historical gladiators and medieval knights look like angels. And I realize that this means some non-guilty people could get killed, but nothing is ever really perfect, is it? Such is the human condition, I suppose...

  10. #20
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Here's what I'm curious about: what are his actual damages? Is he going to be billed for the medical care he received in prison after these attacks? For a couple of different reasons I very much doubt he will be- so his "damages" are pain and suffering? If that's the case, I would only support this if anything that is awarded goes to the families of his victims whose pain and suffering predate his and are as yet uncompensated for.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

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