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  1. #41
    only bites when provoked
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    If you would like a definition of liberal, it simply means in favor of changing the current system- this means that in formerly communist countries, for instance, liberals are what the United States would consider more conservative, while conservatives are hard line communists.
    Nope, wrong.

    Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    All you need to do is read the first paragraph and you'll already be proven wrong.
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    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  2. #42
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    nope! YOU'RE wrong, but you'd never ever consider that because you're so set in your ways that you will never, every change- and I'm sorry for you
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #43
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    wikipedia is not a valid source of information :rolli: I'm sitting beside one of my textbooks that disagrees with you whole heartedly!

    or should I appoligize for having studied international politics where the definitions are different from American! Classical liberalism is no longer applicable in any context except for polical philosophy and other theoretical fields. I find it irrelevant to refer to any word in a context in which it is not presently used, since that is rather useful for other people's understanding.

    I'd like to know what makes you qualified to tell me that you're absolutley right and I'm definitley an idiot- it seems to me that you didn't even read the entire article that you cited as support for your argument since you seem to fail to realize that there are several different definitons for liberal! But then again, you're like Blue Wing- perfectly content to ignore any part of a post that disagrees with your oh so correct opinion :rolli:

    When God dies I'll make sure to tell you so that you can take over your rightful place as the judge of right and wrong in the universe
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #44
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    Sounds like bogus education to me, considering authoritarianism and liberalism are complete opposites. You can be socialist and authoritarian, but not liberal and authoritarian. "Liberal" in the US is usually used to refer to a mixture of socialist and authoritarian views in the guise of being pro-freedom, when in fact they are the opposite of liberalism (conservatives are more liberal than US "liberals"). There is a distinct difference, and I should know, considering I'm a true liberal.
    Oh, really?! Where do you get certification to be a "true liberal"?

    In a sense, I think you could be authoritarian and liberal, not that I've beheld many such people in my time. I do believe mostly liberal opinions could be enforced by an authoritarian system.
    But now I'm wondering what definitions we are using here.
    Are you not a Libertarian, wolf?

    And that thing about Conservatives being more liberal, that's just flatly nonsense. They want to ban abortion, execute people, keep immigrants out, keep gays from marrying, ban drug use...
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    nope! YOU'RE wrong, but you'd never ever consider that because you're so set in your ways that you will never, every change- and I'm sorry for you
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    wikipedia is not a valid source of information :rolli: I'm sitting beside one of my textbooks that disagrees with you whole heartedly!
    That's because it's bogus, written by one of those con artists that has tried to usurp the term.

    or should I appoligize for having studied international politics where the definitions are different from American! Classical liberalism is no longer applicable in any context except for polical philosophy and other theoretical fields. I find it irrelevant to refer to any word in a context in which it is not presently used, since that is rather useful for other people's understanding.
    Current usage is incorrect and highly confusing. It's akin to newspeak. Call it what it is - authoritarian socialism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    In a sense, I think you could be authoritarian and liberal, not that I've beheld many such people in my time. I do believe mostly liberal opinions could be enforced by an authoritarian system.
    That's because they weren't actually liberals, they were socialists. Socialists are very common in the world today, and in this country they believe they are liberals. In fact, this cancer has spread to other countries. It's a sad and dirty state of affairs.

    But now I'm wondering what definitions we are using here.
    The original and correct definition.

    Are you not a Libertarian, wolf?
    I am.

    And that thing about Conservatives being more liberal, that's just flatly nonsense. They want to ban abortion, execute people, keep immigrants out, keep gays from marrying, ban drug use...
    This is authoritarianism and assorted religion-based viewpoints. They are still less authoritarian than their leftist counterparts, who meddle in your personal life, religion, remove and advocate the removal of freedoms they believe others shouldn't have, etc, etc, etc. Leftists are, overall, more authoritarian than "conservatives". Shrub, as I mentioned before, is not a conservative, but an authoritarian with a heavy shot of socialism. He could be any random democratic party politician based on his record as president of the US (before this, though, he seemed to be a slightly-right centerist). Look at the sweeping agreement he got for some crazy legislation...this isn't because the dems rolled over, it's because that's what they wanted in the first place, and without his help they never would have got the republicans to go for it. The only exception is that his cabinet is radically neoconservative and some are hawks, which is what caused some of the other things that are attributed to Shrub.
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    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  6. #46
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    First of all, you've seriously derailed this thread.

    Secondly- you've failed to answer my questions, and I do beleive that you just may be so closed minded that you will NEVER beleive anything that is not what you already beleive in, no matter who or what says otherwise

    You're so incredibly stubborn and closed minded that you're really too pathetic to argue with- think whatever you want- I at least know that I'm not dumb :rolli: I have a lot better things to do that be annoyed by you you're so stuck in your ways that you're perfectly happy to mess up someone else's thread just to try and prove that you're the only one who is right- that's really kind of messed up and egotistical of you
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #47
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
    In fact, Ron Paul is the only candidate for which I've seen active campaigning in my city thus far. Where I am, based on my drives to/from work and lunch, I would guesstimate that Ron Paul bumper stickers and signs outnumber any other candidate by at least two-to-one.
    Same. I just assumed that was because I am in East Texas. It's interesting to hear that this is the case even in California.
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    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  8. #48
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if it matters who we elect. We seem to have problems so awful no one could fix them, and not enough cooperation to fix them even if someone could. There seems to be too much inaction and division, the most negative aspects of democracy...

    There seem to be a lot of more obscure candidates than normal in this election, though that could be a good thing in terms of trying to put more qualified people in the position.

  9. #49
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    When someone falls into arguing what the "correct" definition is, they don't have an argument, especially in a case like this where someone is using a definition argument to argue actual behavior, and using some very loaded words to suggest things outside of what the definition means.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Sandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    First of all, you've seriously derailed this thread.

    Secondly- you've failed to answer my questions, and I do beleive that you just may be so closed minded that you will NEVER beleive anything that is not what you already beleive in, no matter who or what says otherwise

    You're so incredibly stubborn and closed minded that you're really too pathetic to argue with- think whatever you want- I at least know that I'm not dumb :rolli: I have a lot better things to do that be annoyed by you you're so stuck in your ways that you're perfectly happy to mess up someone else's thread just to try and prove that you're the only one who is right- that's really kind of messed up and egotistical of you
    I hate to say it, Whatever, but Wolf started this thread.

    I also have to agree with you... you are not dumb. (((hugs))) Some of the things that you have posted on this forum has amazed me -- I know you are very smart.

    Also, this is going to be so unpopular, and I may lose the few friends that I have on ths forum, but I agree with Wolf. I personally don't see him as being a woman hater... he just seems to have his own opinion on the current options (like everyone here). It's just not popular.

    Now, obviously I am a woman and not a woman hater, HOWEVER... I have no respect for Hillary Clinton, and I would rather shoot myself in the head than vote for her. Give me an option like Condoleeza Rice, and I would be happy to vote for her. Just so everyone knows, I was once a rabid and very misguided liberal before children... after children, I have grown into a hard-line conservative.

    There, I said it.
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