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  1. #511
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post

    Don't question yourself based on my question. I get confused on this stuff all the time.
    I based it off of a Wikipedia article. Other sources seem to suggest that it's a gross oversimplification.

    They might propagate that as an idea, but it's not really possible to live that out.
    No, it isn't, and the evidence for such is quite evident.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  2. #512
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan of Beans View Post
    One thing that I've noticed is that, if we generalise, the atheists in North America are quite different from the atheists in Europe. The former seem a lot more militant, for example. One reason is probably the fact that it's a lot more common in Europe, and in some countries it's even more common than being religious. I'm sure there are other reasons as well.
    It's reactionary, in a lot of ways, to the huge influence of religion in N. America (where I am focusing on USA). Regardless of the 'separation of church and state', the culture is embedded into many, many things. Looking at their elections, inevitably, the religious inclinations of the candidate will always, without fail, come into play. WTF!!!
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  3. #513
    across the universe Olm the Water King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    It's reactionary, in a lot of ways, to the huge influence of religion in N. America (where I am focusing on USA). Regardless of the 'separation of church and state', the culture is embedded into many, many things. Looking at their elections, inevitably, the religious inclinations of the candidate will always, without fail, come into play. WTF!!!
    Yeah, that's true. There have been plenty of non-religious Presidents and Prime Ministers in Europe, and noone even thinks much about it.

    By the way, I'm not sure if it's quite the same in Canada. I don't know why I wrote North America because I, too, was focusing on the USA.

    P.S.: Also, I should have written Northern America, not North America. North America also includes Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean.

  4. #514
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    It's reactionary, in a lot of ways, to the huge influence of religion in N. America (where I am focusing on USA). Regardless of the 'separation of church and state', the culture is embedded into many, many things. Looking at their elections, inevitably, the religious inclinations of the candidate will always, without fail, come into play. WTF!!!
    It is. Because there is a religious majority, and because for the most part that majority is pretty consolidated towards religions derived from christianity, unfortunately so many find it an easy way to connect and with and skew their audience's perception of their actual competencies. Those who do not have a particularly strong opinion on an actual political stance, shift to identify with something familiar. Not everyone, but at the end of the day it is a cheap tool to use to really grab on to stragglers and gain through a different means. Some will even prioritize religion, and other non important traits of the individual running over the stance.
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  5. #515
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    It is. Because there is a religious majority, and because for the most part that majority is pretty consolidated towards religions derived from christianity, unfortunately so many find it an easy way to connect and with and skew their audience's perception of their actual competencies. Those who do not have a particularly strong opinion on an actual political stance, shift to identify with something familiar. Not everyone, but at the end of the day it is a cheap tool to use to really grab on to stragglers and gain through a different means. Some will even prioritize religion, and other non important traits of the individual running over the stance.
    Yes. I would admit that I would prefer for the situation to change in this country, but I do not see this happening soon.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  6. #516
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Perhaps, but atheists have a religion. You still have to construct a sense of meaning which, for all intents and purposes, is indistinguishable from religion since whatever meaning you construct is just as unprovable as God.
    Really? What is the set of belief, or system, shared by atheists, other than the lack of existence of god?

  7. #517
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
    Yes. I would argue that I would prefer for the situation to change in this country, but I do not see this happening soon, and I might even go so far as to argue that this isn't solely the fault of the religious.
    Oh it definately isn't the fault of the religious, as it isn't the fault of a young child if their parents aren't around to teach them right from wrong. It is just a product of the traditions of the environment.

    Religion is easy for people to connect to, and it is generally broadcasted as almost the pinnacle for morality, that many IMO do not really actually care about what their religion actually means-rather they just take on the common values of the majority, as it is easier and safer to run with the pack than against it.

    So when they see someone that relates, or holds any of the same values that they feel so strongly connected to, they frame that persons entire argument/being with what they are familiar with. If what they associate with 'correctness' is not there, than by faulty logic, the entire foundation of faulty. This relates to more than religion, any strong viewpoint by the masses can have the same effect, but religion seems to be an obvious one.

  8. #518
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Really? What is the set of belief, or system, shared by atheists, other than the lack of existence of god?
    Yeah, in some ways it's a religion and in some ways it's many religions. They all believe in the ability to construct meaning themselves and be the masters of their universes, but of course they go about it in different ways and with different results.
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  9. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Yeah, in some ways it's a religion and in some ways it's many religions. They all believe in the ability to construct meaning themselves and be the masters of their universes, but of course they go about it in different ways and with different results.
    I think you're missing the point of atheism because you insist on looking at it as an established thought system that must follow some sort of dogma. It can't be explained in the context of religion, but unfortunately this seems to be the only way religious people are capable of approaching it.

    What is this business about them wanting to be "masters of their universes?" This statement could apply to people of various religions and beliefs. It isn't exclusive to atheists and not all atheists wish to be masters of their universe.
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  10. #520
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Yeah, in some ways it's a religion and in some ways it's many religions. They all believe in the ability to construct meaning themselves and be the masters of their universes...
    (Emphasis mine.) The way you describe it here, atheism is not so much anti-religious as anti-authoritarian. There are spiritual people who don't belong to an organized religion. You could say they construct meaning themselves too.

    Sartre said, "Man is condemned to be free." I believe that if there is any meaning to life, we must construct it for ourselves, and hope that we're up to doing it. I also believe that every religious person chooses their own meanings, whether they know it or not. If they don't know it then they've chosen passively by accepting an authority's word for it.
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