User Tag List

First 414950515253 Last

Results 501 to 510 of 573

  1. #501
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starcrash View Post
    My comment had nothing to do with meaning. I was not agreeing or disagreeing with you on that point.
    It had obvious implications for meaning so I made use of it.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #502
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stek View Post
    I know there are a bunch of atheist meetings taking place, and that there even exist an atheist church(!).
    One positive aspect of churches is fellowship. I suspect that many people join churches for fellowship but don't buy into the religion. Atheists need social support too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starcrash View Post
    Reality is rooted in perception.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    You can believe that. I don't. But, at the very least you must recognize that within your own system of belief "proving" meaning is a silly notion.
    @Beorn, I hope you realize that perception -- yours, mine, and everyone's -- is not entirely reliable, and perception is our only link with reality. Kinda scary when you think about it.

  3. #503
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    One positive aspect of churches is fellowship. I suspect that many people join churches for fellowship but don't buy into the religion. Atheists need social support too.
    Yeah, that was a big one I noticed when I left the church and also had no family support. You're pretty much alone. When I needed to move, I had to drum up friends from a gaming group of mine where the members didn't even live close; a church would have sent guys over without any real trouble.

    Churches, despite any problems with doctrine and the like, do tend to be really good at offering practical support to those who are vetted as members.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #504
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    PORG
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,056

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    One positive aspect of churches is fellowship. I suspect that many people join churches for fellowship but don't buy into the religion. Atheists need social support too.

    Social support is difficult when you feel like people keep testing you for traces of theism just because you have a different set of concerns than they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer
    Churches, despite any problems with doctrine and the like, do tend to be really good at offering practical support to those who are vetted as members.
    Yes, they don't say to people... "fuck off and solve your own problems, stop bothering me with this." I would be happy to participate in a humanist-oriented group if they were supportive. If they just tell me that my problems don't matter, and only the problems of X are important, I would probably have issues with that community. I'm not saying people shouldn't talk about the problems of X; it's just that I reject the notion that it's the only thing we should be talking about. Why can't we also talk about Y? Why do people buy into this notion that it's a zero-sum game?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78
    Likes N/A liked this post

  5. #505
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    @Beorn, I hope you realize that perception -- yours, mine, and everyone's -- is not entirely reliable, and perception is our only link with reality. Kinda scary when you think about it.
    I recognize the importance of perception and variance in perception, but I do not believe that perception is my or anyone's only link to reality.

    I also recognize that I am a product of a secular society so my natural inclination is to maintain a "buffered self." That is, we all in the modern era put a distance between ourselves and reality so that we control the meaning. I want as much as possible to align my perception with reality apart from my own natural desires.

    The funny thing is that most atheists think they're aligning their perception with reality, but actually they are simultaneously focusing a great deal on reality and distancing their perception of meaning from it.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  6. #506
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    PORG
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,056

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    The funny thing is that most atheists think they're aligning their perception with reality, but actually they are simultaneously focusing a great deal on reality and distancing their perception of meaning from it.
    In my experience, despite a lot of INTP atheists claiming to be empiricists, but are stronger advocates of Cartesian doubt in practice, which is ultimately a product of rationalism. They don't want to call themselves rationalists because they associate that with theism.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  7. #507
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Churches, despite any problems with doctrine and the like, do tend to be really good at offering practical support to those who are vetted as members.
    The best ones do this based on need and not status.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
    In my experience, despite a lot of INTP atheists claiming to be empiricists, they seem to be stronger advocates of Cartesian doubt in practice, which is ultimately a product of rationalism.
    Do you mind clarifying your point for me?
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  8. #508
    across the universe Olm the Water King's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    459 sx/so
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    1,583

    Default

    One thing that I've noticed is that, if we generalise, the atheists in North America are quite different from the atheists in Europe. The former seem a lot more militant, for example. One reason is probably the fact that it's a lot more common in Europe, and in some countries it's even more common than being religious. I'm sure there are other reasons as well.

  9. #509
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    PORG
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,056

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post

    Do you mind clarifying your point for me?
    I mean that they claim to trust only things that can be empirically verified, through the senses and the scientific method and so on.

    Many speak of the lack of an objective or knowable reality. They do not argue that such a reality exists, and that it is difficult for us to know it. They argue that they have no reason to believe that it exists, and that therefore all statements are relative, and who is to say what is true or false? Everything is essentially propaganda as they see it.

    Perhaps that's not Descartes... I think I may have been mistaken and operating upon a gross simplification.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan of Beans
    One thing that I've noticed is that, if we generalise, the atheists in North America are quite different from the atheists in Europe. The former seem a lot more militant, for example. One reason is probably the fact that it's a lot more common in Europe, and in some countries it's even more common than being religious. I'm sure there are other reasons as well.
    I think it's a product of people from religious backgrounds rebelling against what they were raised with. Also, there's a genuine tendency in American culture to view excessive emotionality as more morally trustworthy than a more detached intellecutal approach. So, you can't just be an atheist and not a follower of an religion... you have to be really super emotional about it. Otherwise, how can we know for sure what side you are on?
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78
    Likes Olm the Water King liked this post

  10. #510
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
    I mean that they claim to trust only things that can be empirically verified, through the senses and the scientific method and so on.

    Many speak of the lack of an objective or knowable reality. They do not argue that such a reality exists, and that it is difficult for us to know it. They argue that they have no reason to believe that it exists, and that therefore all statements are relative, and who is to say what is true or false? Everything is essentially propaganda as they see it.
    Gotcha.
    They might propagate that as an idea, but it's not really possible to live that out.


    Perhaps that's not Descartes... I think I may have been mistaken and operating upon a gross simplification.
    Don't question yourself based on my question. I get confused on this stuff all the time.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it
    Likes N/A liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Which type(s) do you think are the most reluctant (desinterested in) to talk about
    By Halfjillhalfjack in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-22-2010, 02:35 PM
  2. Fox: The Most Trusted Name in News
    By Gamine in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-28-2010, 04:35 AM
  3. Which types recognize the most strategic value in which types?
    By simulatedworld in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 07-19-2009, 05:22 PM
  4. The most beautiful songs in the world...
    By maliafee in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 07-03-2009, 04:31 AM
  5. The most members online in one day was 360, Today
    By INTJMom in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-15-2008, 03:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO