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  1. #461
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Nothing plagues me as irrelevant [...]
    Let me rephrase: I'm simply confident enough is my knowledge to dismiss as irrelevant the concerns that plague you.

  2. #462
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    It is understandable that Americans dislike atheists because America was settled by religious believers. So atheists are not part of the American mainstream. Atheists are a minority who are seen as rejecting America itself.

    By contrast, Oz was not settled by religious believers but was settled by the Scottish and English Enlightenment. And as a result Oz has recently elected an atheist Prime Minister who instituted a National Judicial Enquiry into Child Abuse in Religious Institutions.

    Americans have and will resist any such enquiry into their own religious institutions, just as I have been banned on this site for even suggesting we become alert to child abuse on Typology Central.

    The dislike of atheists is functional for Americans because it distracts attention from American religious institutions and offers an emotional outlet by scapegoating the atheists.
    Clarify how children are abused.
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  3. #463
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Clarify how children are abused.

    *grabs popcorn* prepares for clusterfuck
    Likes The Wailing Specter liked this post

  4. #464
    Member Tippo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Offending others and being wrong. Interestingly, I have yet to meet anyone who is as agnostic about the existence of unicorns as about that of gods. They usually forget all their arguments in favor of agnosticism (and against atheism) when it comes to less omnipotent characters of fancy.
    Holy shite!!! I could get mucho cash for a unicorn horn!!!! Please advise
    Likes Luke O liked this post

  5. #465
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    Clarify how children are abused.
    Also, Tony Abbott is a Roman Catholic and pro-establishment, so expect this investigation to leave certain areas untouched. But yes, there's a lot of child abuse out there, but there's a lot of focus on sexual abuse.

  6. #466
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    So basically atheism is just questioning questions? Nothing is absolute sure, and who knows maybe rain is just the remnants of a wet dog?
    You're halfway there. As a follow up question, what would you think if someone insisted that there is indeed a ceramic teapot with a gothic motif orbiting the sun, or that we're all living inside of the Matrix? Or any other claim you can think of which is patently absurd and unlikely, but ultimately not disprovable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Personally, I think that the main problem with any deep set religion, and I include atheism... Atheism to me doesn't mean questioning, it just provides a different set of answers...
    This is why you've never understood atheism. Atheism is not about answers, and it is not a religion. FYI protip: calling atheism a religion or referring to atheism as a belief is one of the fastest ways to get an atheist into the argument mindset, and to ruin any chance you might have at an amiable discussion with him or her.
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  7. #467
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tippo View Post
    Holy shite!!! I could get mucho cash for a unicorn horn!!!! Please advise
    Careful, unicorns are a protected species. They have been nearly hunted into extinction for the supposed medical properties of their horns and any oner caught hunting one could be sent to a prison/mental institute for a long time.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  8. #468
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    You're halfway there. As a follow up question, what would you think if someone insisted that there is indeed a ceramic teapot with a gothic motif orbiting the sun, or that we're all living inside of the Matrix? Or any other claim you can think of which is patently absurd and unlikely, but ultimately not disprovable?
    So the fact that you believe something to be unlikely or ridiculous, ultimately reflects how everyone how everyone else should view it? Maybe the same principle, that you cannot expect someone to believe something they feel potentially unfathomable or at best unlikely, but shutting and bolting doors to the possibility of something more, even if you lean a particular way, seems a bit of an overkill. Sure you cannot force something that cannot be moved. Belief is not needing to know for certain, if I were to ask the person for proof, to show me photos of the gothic motif, to get me a book about about the matrix, and they are able to do that and correlate it into their understanding, then maybe I might be convinced that way. If someone comes along and says that hey, those pictures could never be scientifically accurate, or who knows who wrote that book, if we are in a matrix how can we prove that anyone is sentient or actual enough to cross planes and write the truth? If 'absurdaties' are going to be compared to belief in religion, than same 'rules' apply.


    This is why you've never understood atheism. Atheism is not about answers, and it is not a religion. FYI protip: calling atheism a religion or referring to atheism as a belief is one of the fastest ways to get an atheist into the argument mindset, and to ruin any chance you might have at an amiable discussion with him or her.

    I think of religion as an ideology that shapes perception that cannot be definatively proven or disproven. Atheism to me is the religion of no religion, with a whole different set of beliefs. If you can define the way that you associate, fine. But atheism to me is just an attempt at a definition, of something that cannot be defined.

  9. #469
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    So the fact that you believe something to be unlikely or ridiculous, ultimately reflects how everyone how everyone else should view it?
    Certainly not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Belief is not needing to know for certain, if I were to ask the person for proof, to show me photos of the gothic motif, to get me a book about about the matrix, and they are able to do that and correlate it into their understanding, then maybe I might be convinced that way.
    So if some guy showed you The Book of Zion, an old tome filled with claims that the machines have us enslaved inside the Matrix and parables about Neo fighting the Father of the Matrix, backed it up with screenshots from the films, and were utterly sincere in his belief in The Book of Zion, you'd believe it too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    I think of religion as an ideology that shapes perception that cannot be definatively proven or disproven. Atheism to me is the religion of no religion, with a whole different set of beliefs. If you can define the way that you associate, fine. But atheism to me is just an attempt at a definition, of something that cannot be defined.
    I'm going to go out on a limb, and guess that you've known some aggressive/argumentative atheists in your life. Am I off the mark?

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Might sound stupid, but I never understood athiests. I identify as an agnostic, which sure might seem a bit 'weak willed', but to me there is just too much that I do not know to really set something in stone.

    Personally, the way I understand belief is that when you say "I believe in X" you are making a positive assertion about the universe, saying that X is the truth, to have that it is.


    By that standard, if you are unsure or feel you do not have enough information to make such a deceleration about the truth, then you aren't acting in out of faith that it is true - then you aren't taking the action of believing, thus you "do not believe". Contemplating that it might true doesn't qualify as a grey area any more then contemplating eating a sandwich is half into eating a sandwich, it's still is not believing, lacking faith in theism, not-theistic, which is what most of atheism is. From the perspective of negative atheism (the lack of belief), there is no difference.


    But this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    You knew the truth that there was NOTHING to life
    Positive atheism, is a form of atheism that exists a lot more in the minds of theists as a depiction of atheism then it does among actual atheists.

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