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  1. #451
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    So basically atheism is just questioning questions? Nothing is absolute sure, and who knows maybe rain is just the remnants of a wet dog? But it could also be Jesus crying tears of forgiveness to wash away our sins. Or the souls of the recently dead coming back to earth to reincarnate into whatever they touch. Anything can have a spiritual meaning if you look to find one, as anything can have a scientific explanation as well. Personally, I think that the main problem with any deep set religion, and I include atheism, is that they attempt to set standards of what are acceptable interpretations and what do not jive. Arbitrary definitions are shoved together, packaged up, and passed through the family line, and for any member to be dissatisfied with their ratty distilled 90000medowns either have to grin and bear it or go without. Anyways, in theory I have no more issue with atheism than I do any other religion. But often times it seems as if atheists are trying to fight fire with fire, all the while ignoring whats crumbling down around them. Atheism to me doesn't mean questioning, it just provides a different set of answers, ones that can be sort of bleak. Though yeah, I do not think that anyone is 100% resolute on anything ever otherwise we would have a pretty mechanical world.
    No, it cannot. Scientific explanations are reserved for objective matters of the natual world that are falsifiable. Questions of morality and the meaning of life, on the other hand, cannot be answered by science. One may attach spiritual value to scientific matters, say the cycle of the year with its solstices and equinoxes, but this is symbolic rather than an actual explanation of why it works that way and how it came to be.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #452
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No, it cannot. Scientific explanations are reserved for objective matters of the natual world that are falsifiable. Questions of morality and the meaning of life, on the other hand, cannot be answered by science. One may attach spiritual value to scientific matters, say the cycle of the year with its solstices and equinoxes, but this is symbolic rather than an actual explanation of why it works that way and how it came to be.


    May have been a bit of an over-generalization, yes, but most things at their simplest most superficial level can be interpreted easily using multiple different methods. As you get deeper and deeper into something, especially something technical and/or tangible, I would suspect that it would be easier to create an understanding that parallels. Could you atribute the scientific to the spiritual, yes, but you would be fighting harder and harder against the grain and more than likely you would reach a point where you give up or it becomes beyond individual or human capacity to continue. And vice-versa. And at some point I would think they would start to sound a bit ridiculous.

  3. #453
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Might sound stupid, but I never understood athiests. I identify as an agnostic, which sure might seem a bit 'weak willed', but to me there is just too much that I do not know to really set something in stone.

    It seems a bit like you are just setting yourself up for disappointment to me if you are atheistic. (Judgemental I know)

    So God isn't real and you were right, good for you. You knew the truth that there was NOTHING to life before everyone else, enjoy your last few days of being right before we all stumble into an eternal bliss of nothingness. There is no prize to being correct if the contest is out of your control. I know that there is more to it than that, but still.

    I suppose though that beliefs are beliefs, and you have the right to have them, but athiesm just seems like a bit of a black hole to me.

    Though no, I do not hate athiests or blatantly discriminate if someone tells me that they are one, it just is something I personally do not really understand, why deny the possibility of something more? Probably a common mindset, and faith to me is ultimately an individual thing I suppose, so I probably shouldn't just condemn something because I'm uncomfortable with it.
    All you need to do to sound less stupid is look up the definition of atheism.
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  4. #454
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    I can tolerate agnostics, just about. I mean, they're not being religious that much are they? What is it that agnostics are afraid of though?

  5. #455
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    I can tolerate agnostics, just about. I mean, they're not being religious that much are they? What is it that agnostics are afraid of though?
    Offending others and being wrong. Interestingly, I have yet to meet anyone who is as agnostic about the existence of unicorns as about that of gods. They usually forget all their arguments in favor of agnosticism (and against atheism) when it comes to less omnipotent characters of fancy.
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  6. #456
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    All you need to do to sound less stupid is look up the definition of atheism.
    Fine fast definition

    Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God."

    As I said it is hard to argue beliefs, as they are very individualized. But no matter how you slice it, I just do not understand the appeal. I get that it exists and is just as fully a system of belief as anything else, and if you derive what you are looking for with it than fine, but while I accept it as a valid interpretation it is just not something I particularly get. Agnosticism might be a bit too fluid, and maybe I am afraid of being wrong, but unicorns are much less pressing to me than the wholeness of the possible beyond.

  7. #457
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    Fine fast definition

    Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God."

    As I said it is hard to argue beliefs, as they are very individualized. But no matter how you slice it, I just do not understand the appeal. I get that it exists and is just as fully a system of belief as anything else, and if you derive what you are looking for with it than fine, but while I accept it as a valid interpretation it is just not something I particularly get. Agnosticism might be a bit too fluid, and maybe I am afraid of being wrong, but unicorns are much less pressing to me than the wholeness of the possible beyond.
    Perhaps I am strange that way, but I do not hold beliefs for the sake of their appeal. I hold beliefs that I think reflect reality. Thus, my atheism is no more a system of belief than my belief that I am not a ringworm.

    An agnostic may realize his lack of belief in deities and decide to assume a position of uncertainty toward the matter. An atheist may not give them the benefit of that doubt any half-intelligent person is capable of. I, for instance, think the proposition so ridiculous that I cannot even pretend to be undecided about it. Is it possible the anthropomorphic projections of our uneducated ancestors are correct? Sure, but they are also astronomically improbable.
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  8. #458
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    But how could you possibly know what is reality. You can base beliefs off of probabilities, understanding off of 'fact', and eventually you will get to points where what you think you know and what you can never know converge, and you have to make sense of it all somehow. You can take a very grounded approach, a very fly through the air grab on to whatever reins are given to you one, or you can be ambiguous. None of them seem like very good options to me, and I am hesitant to even state I lean agnostically, but atheism and agnosticism just seem like two sides of the same coin, and I would rather balance and fall with whatever may come. Anyways, wasn't meant to be an attack on atheism, but I guess it is what it is.

  9. #459
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    But how could you possibly know what is reality.
    I don't, and I don't need to. But the poor approximation I'm able to assemble is sufficient for everything this life demands. I'm simply confident enough is my knowledge to dismiss the concerns that plague you as irrelevant.
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  10. #460
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I don't, and I don't need to. But the poor approximation I'm able to assemble is sufficient for everything this life demands. I'm simply confident enough is my knowledge to dismiss the concerns that plague you as irrelevant.
    Nothing plagues me as irrelevant, if anything everything is too relevant that I do not know what to cast aside. Don't really know what else to say to this. I'm confident enough to not be confident I suppose, if this is becoming a competition.

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