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  1. #411
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont really understand this post but its alright because I didnt understand the last one either.
    Oh sorry, I'm not always clear. That last post WAS a bit cryptic.

    My first post was just a suggestion to help you find reasons to like atheists. I suggested you get to know them on an individual level, because I find no matter what someone's politics/religion is, they're still just people, and you can find something about them that you'll like.

    The second post was me realizing your problem with atheists is more philosophical than personal. You feel the world isn't as good without God. I considered pursuing this line of thought, but the more I considered my response, the more I realized I didn't feel up to such a big discussion.

  2. #412
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    Oh sorry, I'm not always clear. That last post WAS a bit cryptic.

    My first post was just a suggestion to help you find reasons to like atheists. I suggested you get to know them on an individual level, because I find no matter what someone's politics/religion is, they're still just people, and you can find something about them that you'll like.

    The second post was me realizing your problem with atheists is more philosophical than personal. You feel the world isn't as good without God. I considered pursuing this line of thought, but the more I considered my response, the more I realized I didn't feel up to such a big discussion.
    Its probably both personal and philosophical, given that I have found most of the conclusions about social character reached by sociologists and psychologists are correct just through experience, the two are intrinsically linked.

    I am religious, its not the the world is no good without God, its simply that its something I dont see the point in ignoring and denying and working up increasingly sophisticated ways of doing both, it seems like a pointless expenditure of energy.

    However, the thing is that I've had differences with religious people before, within my tradition, between it and rivals, between it and alternatives, perhaps its just where atheism is at this day and hour but I cant really compare it to anything, except perhaps some minority protestant evangelist congregations in the early nineties who were extremely keen on spreading their message and having everyone accept it unconditionally. The relationship is an interesting one and I think can be demonstrated in most instances, including the leaders, well, Dawkins at least.

  3. #413
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    I'm an agnostic atheist myself, but I've come to realize that atheism is not for everyone. The obnoxious atheists are the ones who think everyone should be atheists and badger those who are not.

  4. #414
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    [...] its simply that its something I dont see the point in ignoring and denying and working up increasingly sophisticated ways of doing both, it seems like a pointless expenditure of energy.
    How bizarrely ironic. There is nothing to deny or ignore. That is the whole point. If there were, believers had a much easier time convincing atheists that they are wrong.
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  5. #415
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    I'm an agnostic atheist myself, but I've come to realize that atheism is not for everyone. The obnoxious atheists are the ones who think everyone should be atheists and badger those who are not.
    Agreed but I have never met one of these. Just atheists who never discuss it. I have met many obnoxious Christians..

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Been looking hard this week for reasons not to dislike atheists, cant find any and I've tried really, really hard.
    ...that say things like this.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
    Likes Chanaynay, Hard, BluRoses, Passacaglia liked this post

  6. #416
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its probably both personal and philosophical, given that I have found most of the conclusions about social character reached by sociologists and psychologists are correct just through experience, the two are intrinsically linked.

    I am religious, its not the the world is no good without God, its simply that its something I dont see the point in ignoring and denying and working up increasingly sophisticated ways of doing both, it seems like a pointless expenditure of energy.

    However, the thing is that I've had differences with religious people before, within my tradition, between it and rivals, between it and alternatives, perhaps its just where atheism is at this day and hour but I cant really compare it to anything, except perhaps some minority protestant evangelist congregations in the early nineties who were extremely keen on spreading their message and having everyone accept it unconditionally. The relationship is an interesting one and I think can be demonstrated in most instances, including the leaders, well, Dawkins at least.
    I guess all you can do is forgive them and try to love them as they are, dude. The best way for a Christian to convert others isn't to put Atheism down, it's to live as Christ did, and let your actions be like a lighthouse for those trapped in darkness. Er..maybe, not sure about that metaphor.
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  7. #417
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    I guess all you can do is forgive them and try to love them as they are, dude. The best way for a Christian to convert others isn't to put Atheism down, it's to live as Christ did, and let your actions be like a lighthouse for those trapped in darkness. Er..maybe, not sure about that metaphor.
    "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: We will meet one another there."

    -- Pope Francis

    Read more at snopes.com: Pope Francis Says It's Not Necessary to Believe in God

  8. #418
    Senior Member Evil Otter's Avatar
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    Alright, let me just climb up here and start my (warning I'm going to use expletives). So my personal experience: Declared atheist are fucking annoying. I have to say I'm "non-religious" just so that I don't get lumped in with the pretentious lot of them, bunch of asses. I've gone to a Dawkins sermon and as a student of philosophy I was not impressed with his misuse of the word Philosophy or with his "begging the question" arguments. They should be called Athe-angelist, with the way they try to convince everyone. So you think it's ridiculous that a God-man would putter around in Jerusalem through his early 30's killing fig trees and curing blind men with some dirt, great! So you think it's wildly unjust for a bald guy to have a she-bear kill 42 children for insulting him, it is! So you think it's ludicrous that a donkey would see an angel and start talking to its master, so did he! Guess what! No one fucking cares. Let them discover it for themselves. If anything, atheist of all people should be encouraging believers to really read their scriptures and study all of it out and then instead of pushing evolution down the bible-belt school districts throats, push Logic. That's right, the study of fucking contradictions. The sad reality that logic is nothing more than an optional elective for some frat boys wanting an easy A while at ASU is astounding, it should be taught as a requirement before any science is taught because it is the foundation of all of them. People that are taught logic learn the value of it, and they realize that contradictions can't exist. But I guess for atheist to realize what this could mean for their cause (and it is a fucking cause) they would have to understand logic which they don't.

    So I'll continue calling myself "non-religious".

  9. #419
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    One of these days I'll have to listen to a Dawkins talk so that I know what all of the fuss it about.

  10. #420
    Senior Member Passacaglia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I am religious, its not the the world is no good without God, its simply that its something I dont see the point in ignoring and denying and working up increasingly sophisticated ways of doing both, it seems like a pointless expenditure of energy.
    Hm, if I were living in the Middle Ages under the ever-present influence of the RCC, I'd probably find it pointless [and dangerous] to deny its power. But living in this era, I find the exercise of clear reason much more fruitful than irrational dogmatism.

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